Taban posts new stretch goals for Escape board game, new model previews

By Polar_Bear
In Board Games
Jun 27th, 2013

Taban is showing off some more stretch goals for their Escape board game as well as some new model previews.

From the update:

Taban keeps unlocking new stuff and revealing new stretch goals for their final 4 days.

Also, new add-on goodies were revealed

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  • joshuar56

    After looking into this game, I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t understand why someone would back it. There is nothing exclusive about it, and all the miniatures included in the game are already available and for MUCH less than what they are asking for in the KS. This just seems like an obvious attempt at the company to skirt retailers and try and make as much profit through KS as possible. There is nothing that needs funding when all the miniatures are already produced…

    • Bewulf

      Let’s take a step back here and take a deeper look at that.

      There are three new and Kickstarter exclusive sculpts (Dr. Ito Kureiji, Pamela, Lawrence) and most of the figures in the base game are variants (Ashton, Alice, Duncan, Martin, Blue Rikishi) or new (Scarabot, Flybot, Wormbot). Only a four sculpts from the base game are old (Jimmy, Freedom, Black Ubume, Green Mamushi).
      Furthermore all the stretch goal figures are new. Now all of the goodie figures that are not copies of those unlocked via the Kickstarter are indeed old, but the price difference comes from the difference in material, as these are resin compared to the metal they are currently available in.

      And this brings us to the main point: Material.
      The figures in Escape are going to be in plastic. This requires new tools, as they can not reuse the tools for the metal figures and new tools cost money. So this is what they need funding for.

      I would also like to use this chance to call into rememberance a Kickstarter where the whole point was to transfer existing sculpts into a new material and that was extremly successfull even when all the figures were already produced: Reaper Bones which collected nearly 3 1/2 million dollars.

      • Veritas

        You do realize that for one, all those Bones were not simple remolding, and number two, more importantly, Reaper brought the cost DOWN by switching materials. You are not doing your argument any favors by comparing Escape to Bones.

        • Bewulf

          And you do realize that the plastic figures will be cheaper than the metal figures? Buying the Escape game costs less than buying just the included figures in metal πŸ˜‰

          And I was mainly trying to show that even if the miniatures are already produced a material switch can cause the need for funding.

      • joshuar56

        Have you looked at these supposed “resculpts”? They are just an arm swap or a head swap. Nothing else.

  • Nachtpfiffel

    The add on miniatures are made of resin, normally they are made of metal.

  • grimbergen

    Most sickening about their setup is in order to qualify for the stretch goals you have to pledge a high $$ level, more than 2x what other similar campaigns ask for in order to set credit aside for addons which were initially unrevealed.

    I remember kicktraq’s initial projections were that this would be a HUGE success in the mega $$hundos – not just based on the first day’s data but after it had stabilized for a few days where in other projects those metrics would be fairly accurate.

    Then people began to see through the sham and pulled out (or rather hardly anyone new pledged beyond the core fanbois) when they realized what little they were getting and the spacing of the stretch goals.

    Well at least they are still looking to get 2x funding so maybe I’ll be the fool here.

    • Bewulf

      Guardian Chronicles had a similar setup and managed to bring $120,000 (4 times the funding goal off $40,000), gaining over 125 backers in the last two days once people perceived that the “all inclusive level” was worth it.

      Regarding the stretch goals I think one should separate “freebies” (meaning things everyone of a certain pledge level or higher gets for free) from “add ons” (meaning things everyone has to pay extra for).

      Personally I really like the idea of a pledge level that not only get’s all the freebies, but also all the add ons, as for me as a backer that means I do not have to worry about extra money for those dreaded last minute add ons. But I do realize it creates a few problems.

      Now I agree that Taban should add a few freebies into the upcoming stretch goals (which are all add ons), but so far I find the ratio of 4 freebies and 5 add ons acceptable.

  • joshuar56

    And in that $200 pledge they force you to buy $80 worth of extras that are priced at more than 50% of their metal version. All the minis games I know including myself would MUCH rather have a metal mini vs a resin one. And then they try and claim that making resin minis is more expensive… I’m sure that’s why GW and PP have started to move to resins right, to lose money?

    • Bewulf

      I also prefer metal figures over resin for gaming. If I had to buy $80 of extras I would consider spending them on stuff like scenery, dice or the Eden rulebook instead of resin figures and buying the figures playable in Escape as metals from the Taban store (should cost about $67 IIRC).

  • mohand

    Hi everybody ,

    We make our best with this first kickstarter to make what we make better than other : a good game , with a lot of playing possibility and the most fine details miniatures the we can .

    We have a good experience in different kind of cast and an resin cast in 15 dollars in the goodies will be available for 20 dollars minimum in standard shop …and we offer 80 dollars of goodies …

    We have more than 30 model in this board game and you need more ….

    If you want to support a REAL game for gamers and not add 10000 miniatures in your laundry join us if you don’t want

    We prefer to up the quality than quantity so if you prefer quantity they are a lot of other KS who will offer you that …

  • MrZombi

    You’re not forced to take minis with the 80$ goodies joshua, there’s a lot of others stuff to deal with (dices, T-shirt, signed artworks…etc. for all the tastes) and it’s up to 80$ that you can spend on it. If you don’t want to use them you’re free to do it.

    You’ve already point the same arguments for Guardians Chronicles, so we’ve perfectly undertsood that you prefer pledge at 50-100$ for a potential get everything pledge and spend 500$ on goodies for other big company games, than helping little companies to create a game in wich they put all their guts.

    For 69$ you got a fully operational,fun, replayable game with some KS exclusive, it’s already a good deal, nobody force you to spend 200$ on the ISC sensei. You will be able to play from 1 to 6 with various game mode (solo, coop, versus…etc.), a lot of missions and campaigns and all that only with the basic version of the game, you can add to those 69$ a few extra bucks in order to get some special minis, like for example Pamela or the Puppet Master.

    But I’m not sure that you’re really interested in the gameplay of the games you back, just throwing money when you see a lot of minis for a potential low cost, no matter if they’re of good quality or not.

    You’ve entered on the comment section of the campaign three days before the end and start spreading negativity and criticism, what’s the point in all that ? Why bashing them so close from the end of the campaign, you could have made all those remarks many days or weeks before…

    What’s funny is that you stick to you arguments, but don’t take acount of the answers the Taban company gave to you, really a nice mentality, it’s sure with you big gaming companies won’t have worries to do for their future.

  • Pi_Rm

    I am one of the bakers, and surprising by this thread.
    Why I decided to support Escape game?
    Because I like the Eden universe.
    Because I met parts of Taban team on exhibitions and they are really friendly and affordable.
    Because they made and make a really good job to promote not only their games but also globally tabletop gaming.
    Because I love the game play provided by Taban’s games.
    Because my son, 12 years old, like to play with me at Eden, and he is enthusiastic with the Escape project.
    Because I really like the miniatures. Oshoku master is awesome.

    So, what else? πŸ™‚

  • mohand

    Thanks to all for your support , you’re awesome πŸ˜‰

    And we have a lot to show you so we hope to develop that in this few days πŸ˜‰

  • joshuar56

    And now the fanboy pledgers come to the rescue to try and bury anyone who actually makes any sense. Just a word of caution, I asked Taban last night why the models that used the same sculpt as their Eden minis were so expensive when part of the cost (sculpting) was already done. They first replied that they were resculpts so they had to pay for that. When they were caught in this lie they back peddled and tried to come up with another excuse why a model that they normally sell for $10 is $15 in their KS.
    If you are thinking about backing this project I would be very cautious, as the creators seems to use a lot of sideways talk and half truths. If they weren’t trying to make a cash grab why would they force you to spend $80 on minis that you could get cheaper elsewhere in order to get all the stretch goals? They have never answered that question. And I believe it’s because they are trying to gouge as much money as they can from the backers they do have.

    • MrZombi

      I think you have totally misunderstood the ks Joshua, with the ISC sensei, you get all the stretches automatically. The 80$ are for goodies, that’s to say bonuses nothing force you to take them and moreover, nothing force you to take the resin mini goodies, there’s also dices, T-shirt, artwork…etc.

      All the unlocked stretches come with the 200$ pledge, so explain me how your words make more sense than the one of the creators of the game, are you the ultimate boardgame, miniature guy who knows everything on it and is so sure of him that he’s forced to share all his wisdom and knowledge to all the poor backers (and potential ones) that are to stupid to think by themselves and google Eden like you did ?

      What’s the purpose in all of that, that everybody come and back the same projects as you, because your choices are smarter ?

      • Bewulf

        Let’s please keep it civil guys.

        Everyone is entitled their opinion and with Kickstarters, where all risks rest on the pledgers, it is a good idea to be extra sceptical.

        While I do not agree with all of joshuar56’s points (see my response to his first post) I think you misunderstand him here MrZombi.
        His, IMHO, valid question is why the “all inclusive level” has to be $200 with $80 extras included instead of, for example, $150 without any extras.

        Of course you do have a very valid point (and I have already said so myself) that noone is forced to get the resin figures with their allowance for extras, as there are several other options available (scenery, dice, Eden rulebook aso.).

        • joshuar56

          That’s the initial point I tried to make, but was jumped on by the heavily emotional fanboys who can’t deal with any questioning of the project they are backing. I in return got defensive and pretty smart assed on the KS, which probably wasn’t the best course of action. But some of the points I bring up, like the creator giving different answers to a question are true. Also the fact that you can get those resin models available in the KS elsewhere for much cheaper is also true.

          I wish I had brought this up much earlier in the KS so that they could have at least had time to address it, but with the $200 initial buy in for all the stretch goals, I didn’t give the game more than a glance.

          You seem to be stalking me everywhere I go MrZombie, maybe you should give it a rest and let the people hear all the facts and make up their minds for them? Just because I bring up some negative points about the project doesn’t mean they are any less true, or any less valid. The potential customers should have ALL the info.

          • MrZombi

            The resins minis they added on the goodies shop (on backers request) wich are coming from the Eden game are KS exclusive so you won’t be able to purchase them somewhere else.

            The ones that you can purchase are the Eden unassembled metal version wich seems different.

            I totally understand that for you all the customers have to get all the datas, so you put 1$ on every ks game in order to point out all the things that seems wrong to you, or only on the campaign made by small french companies ? (because you acted the same way on Guardians Chronicles).

            So yes maybe I’m a little too much enthousiastic when a project please me, and probably I’ve got too much empathy but when a guy (Mohand) spend more than a month on sculpting a mini like the puppet master and arfter that he’s accused of wanting to lure and steal backers money, I found it a little harsh. Like the fact that for some people getting huge minis like the puppet doesn’t worth to invest in a project.

            On the stalking side, I’ve made the thread on GC forum and BGG in wich you posted long time before you showed up. So I don’t know if I’m the more stalkative of us, I’ve only respond to your post (with my guts Iadmit it and I’m sorry for that because when I’m commited into something I do it on my max).

          • Soulfinger

            So Joshuar56 posts a question, MrZombi replies with irrelevant data, Joshuar56 restates his question, MrZombi rephrases irrelevant response. I love it! Way to talk in circles guys! Next round is yo mamma jokes.

            So why do the $10 models cost $15 in the KS? That’s what I wanted to see an answer to.

          • joshuar56

            That’s a good question…

          • Bewulf

            Really? Because the answer to that has been given multiple times already. But let’s do it again. πŸ˜€

            Short answer:
            $10 models from the Taban store = metal
            $15 models from the Kickstarter = resin
            metal /= resin -> price difference

            Long answer:
            Backers wanted Eden miniatures/more meaningful choices for the extras they have to pick. Taban wants to avoid the impression that they are trying to “clear stock” of already exisiting metal figures (and the sale of already existing products can be a bit problematic on Kickstarter), so they deceided to recast some figures in resin. These resin figures will only be available through the Kickstarter.

            So the $15 models are limited collectors editions (<- my wording, not Tabans) made of a different material than the unlimited the run of the mill $10 models.

          • Nachtpfiffel

            The answer was already given the miniatures in the goodie section are made of resin.
            That makes the price higher, because any miscast is lost material.
            You can buy the miniature in metal (for Eden) for less.
            If you prefer resin more than metal miniatures they might be an option for you.
            But there are enough other options like the rulebook and Eden cards for the included miniatures.

          • joshuar56

            Then why not also give people the option of getting the metal ones?

  • I backed at the base level, so no worries on my end.

  • joshuar56

    Good for you Bob! But you’ll miss out on those KS exclusive minis!

    • bibouch2

      Of course not, he can still buy the 4 KS minis by increasing his pledge of 60$

  • joshuar56

    I just realized also, the fact that they are making people spend $80 on these overpriced models to fund the stretch goals, kinda invalidates the whole purpose of stretch goals doesn’t it? I mean they are getting people coming and going… Stretch goals should be a reward for backers because of the success of a project, if the creator is selling more product and doing really well then they can afford to give a little more to the backers each step of the way. But this $80 is making the backers pay for these stretch goals up front. So in a way it’s like saying “yeah we wanna reward you for this project doing so well… but you gotta pay for it…”.

    I guess that’s my whole issue with the project in a nutshell.

    I’ve been taking to some people here and there, especially on the GC comments section (that project that I tried to sabotage… until they listened to me and dropped their prices and actually hit some great stretch goals… yeah that one) and they all seem to feel the same way.

    • Bewulf

      But is what you are complaining about not always the problem of an “all inclusive” pledge level? Unless enough add ons are reached such a level will always have an “up front” payment. In return the “all inclusive” pledge level will become very attractive once enough add ons are reached and might turn into an absolute no-brainer if the campaign is successful enough.
      There is simply no other way to do these types of pledge levels. Heck, sometimes even normal levels work that way (not being worth it = upfront payment unless a certain number of streches is reached).

      I would also like to point out that from a backer perspective there is an extremely simple solution if you do not think the all inclusive level (or any level) is worth it: Do not pick it!
      Yes, it is that amazingly simple. Pick a basic level/level with a few extras that you think is worth it and hand pick the add ons you want. Noone is forcing to choose a specific pledge level (or even pledge at all).
      And the best part of all? If you change your mind anytime during the campaign that all inclusive level will still be there for you to pick.

      You do not have to like the resins or their pricing (which I think is reasonable for resins), but you seem to be oblivious that there are other options available to pick for the extras than the resin models (scenery, dice, t-shirt, Eden rulebook, plastic models aso.). Are you aware that these other options exist (just wanting to make sure you know all your options)?

      • joshuar56

        If you have spent any time on KSers at all you will understand that the majority of backers will want the “all inclusive” pledge level. This pledge level is what almost all backers will look for as soon as they go to a new project. “What do I have to spend to get everything” is what I look for every time. Most people will either back that level or nothing at all (I’m one of those people). But you are right, that pledge level is always a little high and usually not as good a deal from the get go, if the all inclusive pledge level for Escape was $120 from the start, not even that would have looked like a good deal until goals were met. In fact it would have only included the base game (which you can get for $69) so you’d already be paying over $50 just to get stretch goals. But Taban goes even further, on top of paying them $51 to get stretch goals, you also have to spend $80 on “goodies” all of which are priced strikingly high for a kickstarter, not for retail, but definitely for a kickstarter. I won’t keep arguing since there is no chance of there being a chance. But you honestly can’t see why people don’t like the forced addons purchase requirement to get all the stretch goals? It’s the first thing everyone says when they mention why they aren’t pledging. I see “I’d pledge Escape if there were a $120-$130 pledge level that got the stretch goals”. Taban I think dropped the ball on the pledge layout, I think they could have had a really successful KS project (probably 300k-500k) if they had just lowered their “get everything” initial buy in.

        • bibouch2

          No one is forced to pledge. If the price is above your willingness to pay, it doesn’t mean that it is too expensive at all, but for you. Live with it and remember the famous quote of Bill Clinton about economy πŸ˜‰

          • joshuar56

            I understand that, but in the end Taban is the one who pays for it. You’re right, I can just move on, but Taban is the one losing all this potential money that they otherwise could have had if they had set up better pledge levels. I’m not just talking about me personally, there are plenty of other less vocal people out there who think the same way. As it stands, the game doesn’t look like it will be successful enough to break into the American market. Currently no US retailers (or even distributors that I can find) carry Eden, and based off the KS numbers I can’t see that changing for Escape.

          • bibouch2

            100% with you there – but not jumping to the same conclusion. Hope that IRL may bring us one day at the same table sharing a drink or two. Guess this would be a nice fanboys meeting πŸ˜‰

        • Bewulf

          Ah, so the problem for you is not the “up front” payment or that the “all inclusive” level might not be worth it, but the money for extras included in that level and that none of the goodies available have a high enough discount available to justify purchasing them on Kickstarter.

          Now I can totally understand that. Personally I do think that a $150 all inclusive level with no money for extras might have been a better choice instead of giving some backers the feeling of “Meh, now I have to spend $80 on extras I do not (for whatever reasons) really want.”.

          There is nothing that I can do to change the situation, but allow me to offer a viewpoint that might lets you see it in a non-negative light:
          Ignore the money for extras.
          Only consider picking the all inclusive level once you think it is worth it even without the money for extras. Yes, it will take longer to get to that point, but once there you will be happy about it.
          When the time comes to spend that extra money simply pick up a couple of exclusives (8x Pamela? πŸ˜€ ) and sell them on the secondary market.
          I know it’s extra work, but it get’s that money for extras out of your head.

          • joshuar56

            I’ve resigned to basically just not worry about the $80 at this point, I’ll get some terrain or the Eden rulebook, but I don’t think most the backers lost will take the same route as me. Most have probably already moved on and wont even give the project a second look because of sticker shock for the “all inclusive” pledge. It really is a shame, I think this project could have done really well if a little more thought had been put into the pledge levels. Everyone that I have talked too who has checked the project out, but not backed it, has said that they would have pledged if there had been a $120-$130 “all inclusive” level without the goodies requirement.

            Also I think it would have made a lot more sense to maybe take a loss and toss in Eden rulebooks for free just to get some cross promotion going, but that’s a whole other discussion.

        • Oh wow πŸ™‚ Usually I don’t keep quiet, but this is not the first Taban campaign that felt overpriced so I have simply not paid much attention…

          What I meant was – yes, I like the sculpts, but it’s just too damn expensive any way you look at it. A lower all inclusive price would definitely be more attractive and had I not been forced to buy $80 of goodies I might have done it anyway. This way just puts me off.

  • bibouch2

    @Joshua: just accept this simple fact: Painter are willing to pay twice the pewter costs for resin – see for example this:

    This is something you must understand: resin is for painter, plastic for gamer, and pewter for oldtimer πŸ˜‰

    • joshuar56

      I’m not arguing value. I’m not even saying that Taban is gonna rip people off. I think they’ll provide the product, and that it’ll be a quality one. But I also think they are trying to make a nice profit in addition to kickstarting a project, and that should never be the initial goal of a KS campaign. I think it’s just as disingenuous as some of these big companies KS their projects when they don’t need too.

      • bibouch2

        Of course they’re making a profit. And I hope a nice one. No backer I hope want them to produce one-shot and die. A company to survive needs profit. As they’re not producing tons of cheap minis, but chose a premium policy, the profit is set accordingly.
        Really I don’t see why this affects you that much.