Privateer Press Unveils Colossals

By bj
In News
Feb 3rd, 2012
59 Comments
419 Views

Privateer Press unveils Colossals for release later this year:

From their post:

Privateer Press is proud to announce WARMACHINE: Colossals, the next expansion to WARMACHINE coming July 2012! This new expansion introduces giant super-heavy warjacks on 120 mm bases that tower over other models on the tabletop. Unleash the colossals this summer!

For more information visit www.privateerpress.com/warmachine

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  • Woah. Man I can hardly wait for these guys to come out.

  • I don’t play warmahordes yet but I’m really interesting in the way the rules mechanics will work for these.

    I think I find myself sliding closer to buying in.

  • KelRiever

    Ah, the arms race for bigger and more models.

    Apocalype it! Waiting for the miniature that is the size of my car from one of these game companies.

    Maybe it will be Flames of War? They could do a scale model of, I don’t know, a fleet!

  • beefheart

    I think you may be onto something… Scale miniature gaming in a 1:1 scale. I think we are going to need a bigger table…

    • KelRiever

      Let’s leapfrog to when you just put on a costume of a warjack, stand on the table, and stomp all over your opponents minis. πŸ˜€

    • Soulfinger

      Hey, I used to play 1:1 scale wargames back when I was a kid. You be the bad guy. I’ll be the good guy. pew pew The rules lawyering even worked out the same.

  • Urlock Gaur

    So the Battle Engines are around $80 each. How much will these cost? Will they have a new break off company called Steamworld? They look cool, but I’m sure that they’ll be priced out of most people’s financial range.

    • admanb

      As opposed to everything else in miniature gaming?

      As long as they’re balanced it won’t be an issue if they’re priced to their size. It’s only if people feel obligated to own one that they’ll be a problem. Battle Engines are the perfect example of Doing It Right.

    • mathieu

      The cheapest ones are at $85, and it’s already gone up quite a bit from there. And at that price they are already as expensive as FW models the same size, only with dramatically low levels of detail and terrible quality control on the casting. The latest ones are significantly better in terms of details than the first were, and seem to be more cleanly cast as well… But it’s really not that impressive considering the price of these things and how much actual high quality resin cast models cost out there.

      That quote in the video leaves a bitter sweet aftertaste:

      One of the things we wanted to make sure didn’t happen was it looked like we took a standard size warjack and just made it bigger. We want to retain the level of details that you see on the heavy warjacks.

      Good thinking… And exactly what I always criticized the WM battle engines for: they are just standard size models that they made bigger, hence there appalling level of details. Too bad they forgot about that “quality we strive for in every model” when coming up with the BEs…

      • zeno

        Please enlighten me where in the range you can find smaller sized Storm Striders and such.
        I must have missed them totally.

        • mathieu

          Sighh… I’m really tempted to go the easy, sarcastic route here :|. I guess I’d only encourage your trolling though, so let me just make my point clearer.

          Please re-watch the video and understand what they say in it about the level of details of these colossals. It’s not just about their not being “standard size warjack and just made bigger”, it’s about releasing larger models that still retain the level of detail that you can find on their “standard”, ~30mm models.

          This is the point I am making about the WM Battle Engines. They are NOT large models that retain the level of detail of “standard” WM models. Far from it. They are large-scale, probably ~90 to 120mm, models, with levels of details matching that kind of scale instead of being closer to 30mm scale details. Everything on these BEs is much, much coarser than it is on a “standard” WM model, which further makes them very expensive for what they are.

          This is an issue that PP already addressed to some extent with the Hordes BEs, vastly more finely detailed than their WM counterparts. I don’t expect they’ll ever admit they took the easy, lazy route on the WM BEs, but I guess their emphasizing how finely detailed the Colossals will be is the next best thing.

  • bork da basher

    i was hugely unimpressed with battle engines but i totally forgive you PP these look amazing, im really looking forward to this. the cryx kraken looks epic. excited!

  • lordofexcess

    These models look cool … for me though years and years ago when I was hardcore into Warmachine (pre-hordes days … way back) our gaming group all saw the “escalation” of the game coming. We loved the early days of boxed set vs. boxed set true skirmish. Some of the most fun I’ve had with gaming was the few years of early Warmachine. I love Privateer Press and their products, etc. but I just don’t like the inevitable GW style need to sell more models by slowly ramping the size of armies up and up and up. The warma-hordes rules are good but I hated them at high point levels … just like GW’s rules kinda break at lower levels I always felt warmachine at least (and the core mechanics are still the same so I don’t see how it would be different now) broke when you got to multiple casters and more than 20 figures per side.

    The games just took too long, too much combo … too much … too much. So I agree with the previous comments here is apocalypse-clone time for this game. Cool models, I could see picking them up perhaps even … to use with other games. But as was stated … if the battle engines are 80 how much are these going to run? 100 … 150 … πŸ™ People joke but one of the big things I began to hate about 40K was that the 4×6 table is just sort of stupidly small for big games. Its fine if your in a store or playing “floorhammer” or whatever but if your in your own house/garage and you have enough room for a single table. Tossing out baneblades and titans on a 4×6 is just dumb.

    I’ve come to appreciate 15MM or smaller for really large scale battles, for 25 MM or larger I prefer to stick with true skirmish. Squad level with one or two vehicles. The size of the battlefield seems to fit the games in a more satisfying way.

    • admanb

      Warmachine is still designed and balanced around the 35-50 point range (equivalent to 500-750 when you were playing) and single-caster games. They have stuck with this consistently and even reversed the trend of escalation from Mk1>Mk2.

    • warpcrafter

      I wish that a decent sci-fi or fantasy space game would come out in 15MM scale. I used to play epic because they rules were better than 40K, but I didn’t paint anything because it was too small. 15MM, however would be just right. Then having something like titans or colossals would fit in. Until then Warmahordes can keep their fiddly bits.

      • Tomorrows War?

        Gruntz?

        You are living in the golden age of 15mm sci-fi

  • blkdymnd

    The game has officially crossed the line into Sillyland and PP persists on earning their modified motto of Pay Like You Got a Pair. Glad I jumped off their wagon finally.

  • TheOldMan

    Keep something in mind folks…you do not have to use Colossals or battle engines and you can still play battlebox games if you so choose. The game is pretty flexible that way.

  • Nosaj Verush

    Gosh, I can’t tell you how some you are nailing it for me. I really loved the early days of Warmachine. But, as it got bigger, it got crazy. I still play, but at lower point levels. However, my real passion now is Heavy Gear Blitz. It’s like being let out of a box playing at the 15mm scale. Wow is that a whole city on the OTHER side of the board! Very cool and refreshing after piling all those lovingly painted minis on the table for so many years just to pick them up as a pie plate sized bomb wipes the out.

  • Sejanus

    Nice to see even in 2012, Fonzie is still jumping the shark

    • cama

      EHHHHHH! Sit on it!

      So true though. Colossal … waste.

  • Hunter

    Those are stupidly big. You would need a separate bag just to transport one. It would make a nice piece for my bookshelf, but jeez.

    • cama

      There’s a Battlefoam bag for that.

  • Repeter

    I am in the boat with the folks who enjoyed this game before Hordes and the endless, fast pace of releases. PP and WM were a blast, back then. Now, I never what the hell I am facing, as the number of releases per faction is quite staggering. It has gotten too big for me–soon you’ll need 4×6 tables for the game.

    Plus, PP touted themselves, in the early years, as the anti-GW. They should have kept their mouths shut, on that point, however, if their plan all along was to follow GWs business model. This isn’t a knock on PP or GW, but I do miss the days when they were very different.

    These giant jacks look kind of cool, but I can’t see myself shelling out what they will inevitably cost, nor can I see myself wanting to play a game large enough to make them look logical on the board. Finally, I also can’t see myself lugging around an extra suitcase/bag to get it to the LGS.

    • metalsifter

      Privateer has never touted themselves as “anti-GW”

      Do they have any Baneblades? Harridans? Mantas?

      Nope. You can still field small warbands if you want, or you can use larger armies. It’s totally up to you.

      PP is nowhere near becoming anything like GW.

      Expansion is inevitable, you have to in order to remain in business. that does not mean pp is going to be another GW.

      • Soulfinger

        Let’s wait an see if PP’s skirmish battles end up in a “Specialist” category like GW did with Mordheim and Necromunda. WH40k started out pretty skirmish friendly too.

      • Repeter

        You serious? They used to make tons of barely veiled references of how they weren’t GW. If you missed that, you either weren’t there at the start or weren’t reading in between the lines.

        I don’t buy that “expansion is inevitable” equals endless new releases and bigger and bigger models. There are other ways to expand that I can think of that doesn’t include endless expansion of model numbers.

        Also, here are some ways that PP has moved into practices thought to be akin to GW:

        –New edition of rulebooks, roughly 6-7 years after first releases, mostly due to rules bloat.
        –These new rulebooks are now “army books”, which could directly be translated into codexes. One needs to buy all that these books to be as prepared for opponents as they were in the “good ole days”.
        –Game size keeps getting larger. I remember fondly all the 500 pt tourneys I used to attend. Most of those dried up after Apotheosis and turned into 750pt tourneys. Now, these are mostly 35-50pt, which seems to me to include a significant amount of more models (since in MKII, one doesn’t pay a point value for casters–these used to be 65-100pts of one’s army–and they still get “jack points” to spend too!) than a 500 or 750pt army.
        –They used to brag about using only metal models, but have since moved to plastics on a lot of their releases. While I appreciate this from a modeler’s perspective, it is still evidence of how PP used to tout themselves as the anti-GW.

        These are just a few examples from the top of my head. One difference still remains, however: people still show up to PP tourneys with unpainted and barely assembled armies. Yuck, imo.

        Also, I can still field very small armies with GW minis too. The tourneys for both PP and GW don’t support that notion, however, nor do the vast amount of choices available. If anything, GW has put out some specialist games that remain the small, skirmish games they were supposed to be (this is a move I would loooove to see PP take from GW).

        Anyway, agree with me or not–I don’t care. A lot of folks feel the same way I do and your opinion probably won’t change that.

        I still think these Colossals look great. I would love to see one as a big ole decoration to my gameroom. We’ll all have to see how the price point works out I guess?

        • metalsifter

          Just because you “read between the lines” does not mean that was PP’s intention, that’s your interpretation.

          Other game companies, not just GW, used separate army books for different races and cultures and many of them were doing it before GW was.

          GW game sizes have been getting bigger for many years, but with GW games you have to use larger armies since that’s one of the characteristics of 40K and WFB. large scale armies.

          As you said, GW put out “specialist games” that are the small skirmish games you have to buy separately. PP’s game is still the same game.

          With PP games, you don’t have to play a larger game at all, you can play small skirmish games or larger games.

          Not to mention that PP games require a lot less miniatures than 40K and WFB.

          Yes you can play 40K with different point values, but when you take larger vehicles your opponent almost has to as well, with the battle engines that’s not the case. They just aren’t that powerful, compared to your opponent taking a Baneblade or Warhound Titan.

          As for the plastic vs metal thing, there is no “evidence” that PP’s stance on metal being better than plastic was “anti-GW”. PP staff simply preferred metal over plastic. Now, unfortunately, you almost have to move to a cheaper material since metal is just too expensive.

          PP does not have to take any moves from GW, their game is still a small skirmish game with the flexibility in the rules system to be used for larger games, unlike GW where you have to buy a whole new set of rulebooks to play larger “apocalypse” games.

          Wasn’t PP’s “Warmachine Unbound” free?

          • Repeter

            Hey, please don’t get upset, as I am enjoying our debate and can be pretty sarcastic. But really, to pretend that PP’s early line wasn’t filled with not-so-subtle jabs at GW is sort of burying your head in the sand. I work in advertising, so maybe it came off as obvious to me, but am I the only one who remembers this? We all loved it, ate it up, bought the hell out the game and helped create a successful company. It was good times, for sure.

            Somewhere along the line, however, I grew tired of the “arms race”, as the PP dudes termed it in their above video, and moved on to some other games.

            Endless and aggressive release schedules that one feels they need to keep up with to maintain an army is, for many, very tedious. When models for an army start to range in the $80-$100 range, it makes keeping a collection current flat-out impossible for even more people.

            I appreciate that PP has kept these expensive models in-line enough that one doesn’t need them to play. As a painter and collector, however, I like to own the army. I’d argue this is no more or less expensive with either Warmahordes or 40K. And a 50pt game of WM uses the same number of models, which cost the same amount of money, as 1,500pt game of 40K. They each have their equivalent game sizes, both larger and smaller. I know because I own and play both. The whole “one costs more and needs more models” thing isn’t true and is really up to the particular gamer.

            All I am getting at here is that there are a lot of similarities between the two companies’ main games. I still play each, from time to time, but have definitely moved on to, imo, greeener pastures–from a player’s, modeler’s and painter’s perspective.

            Specialist games are a whole other story, but each has gotten in on that too (I hope PP does more of it).

            One last thing: I support and agree with PP’s move to plastic–and not from just a financial perspective. I love converting plastic models, so woot! They still used the all-metal campaign, in the early days, to poke at GW. Again, go ahead and site a lack of evidence, but I know what I read then and how I was supposed to hear it. No biggie, but PP did open themselves up to a little ridicule for that move…

          • KelRiever

            Its pretty much been that PPS has said things that allude to being not a GW like company, and then backtracking on that. Part, probably because it nailed their foot to the floor. This debate probably goes back to Superiority. The metal figure only model is an example of that. It went something like:

            “Go play with something plastic.”

            “We meant pre-painted plastic”

            “Monsterpocalypse!”

            I’m pretty sure that its at the point where you simply decide if its for you or not, and move on if its not. I can see both sides of the arguement and all I can say is I haven’t purchased a PPS model in years, but I still play and its something usually between 25 and 50 points.

          • Soulfinger

            The FLGS did a lot to promote Privateer Press as the anti-GW. I remember when Warmachine first came out, store owners were falling over themselves saying how it was TOTALLY different from WH. There was an attitude among the people playing in store tournaments that just by owning this stuff they had dealt a grievous blow to GW’s coffers. Whether or not PP initiated that attitude, it fed their sales.

        • cama

          You’re exactly right. I had PP waaay in the beginning, but felt I was getting Games Workshopped all over again. And guess what? The hits just keep on coming. Only difference was when I flogged my PP stuff on ebay, I made MORE money that I paid for it! Yay!

  • scarletsquig
  • JoeGKushner

    I don’t play the game but the models look great. Some fun stuff there. Price wise, yeah, it may be outta my league though. Makes sad face.

  • tuco

    So will I eventually get to field the Skorne giant from the RPG books?

    • Dewbakuk

      Probably, the end of the video has a sketch of a giant troll.

      I regularly play ‘Battlebox games’, in fact I’m meeting up with a couple of guys next week to play a bunch of small games, all below 20pts. I also play larger games, although I’m not a fan of multiple caster games as they can get very complicated.

      I’m not a fan of the Battle Engines, but that’s probably because I’m a Menoth player and ours sucks. These however, look very cool and at the end of the day, that’s most of the apeal. As to cost, yes they’ll be expensive but far less than a Titan (much smaller for a start) and FW sell plenty of those so I don’t think the price will get in the way of sales!

      • MelvinFenwick

        but that’s probably because I’m a Menoth player and ours sucks.

        O.o

        Are you kidding me? I don’t think you’re using it right…or you havn’t actually tried it out and you’re just using theorymachine.

        I love my BE. Watching opponents squirm when they realise killing off one of my Paladins or Exemplar will get them a weapon master retaliation strike in the face is just fantastic. Easy boosted attack and damage rolls from a POW 15 (plus free admonisher hits) is amazing. What’s that? You’re complaining you have to damage your own model to do these things? Thats when I introduce a 1 point solo to the mix: The menofixer! All in all an excellent tool for the toolbox. Is it as amazing as the Avatar? Of course not, but it IS great on the field.

        • Dewbakuk

          It has some good abilities but those abilities are highly situational. I’d definatelly say it’s overcosted though. My main issue is the model itself. The guy pulling it is very cool but the actual alter is way out of skew, too short and tall, the balance of the whole thing is off and it’s pretty bland detail wise.

          I proxied it once, which probably isn’t enough to get a proper handle on it but was enough to let me know that I didn’t need it. I was dissapointed because I liked the idea of having one as a centrepiece to my army, but the model is ‘meh’ at best,

          • MelvinFenwick

            How are they situational??

            Cleansing Aura can be used in almost every game. I see continuous effects all the time.

            Doors of Judgement can be used when something dies…and in this game, there tends to be plenty of death.

            Eruption of faith might be a tiny bit situational. Afterall, most of time when you have enemy models around you, you tend to be dead. But I’ve used it a number of times just by advancing my engine into the opponent front line to push models off control points.

            As for the gun, you use it almost every turn. And you’d be a goof not to use the boosting abilities when you do.

            As for being too tall….ever see a REAL organ in a REAL cathedral? You go look at one of those and then tell me this thing is too tall.

            And of course you don’t NEED it. Not sure how you could say “meh” though. It has some nice detail…an excellent paint job would definitely make it an excellent centerpiece.

          • Dewbakuk

            Obviously a difference in local meta, around here I’m the one putting down most of the continuous effects so I don’t always want to use Cleansing Aura.

            Doors of Judgment could be used everyturn but the majority of the time it allows you to kill an infantryman or put a few points on a jack. The reason I class this as situational is the only way this ability becomes important is if the enemy caster or an important solo is capable of being the target.

            Eruption of Faith, I didn’t use and I can’t see it being used very often.

            The gun is reasonable but as with most guns, of limited effect. If it could fire more than once like the other ranged engines I’d rate it higher.

            Of course I’ve seen an organ, but they aren’t being pulled around a field are they? If they were they’d fall apart or at least fall over. As I said, it’s a case of model balance, all the mass of the model is at one end with little to balance it out visually. A good example of a better balance is the GW Vampire Mortis Engine thingy (although I’m not a big fan of that either but for different reasons). Again the majority of it’s mass is at the back but because the front rises up and occupies space with ghosts it gives the illusion of mass even though most of it is hollow. The figure just looks more balanced.

            An excelent paintjob can make anything look good though. Skilled painters have proven that many times by painting poor sculpts well and making them look good. A good freehand painter could make a rectangle look good on a tabletop, wouldn’t make it a good sculpt.

            All that said, this is an opinion, obviously you like it and I don’t. Doesn’t make either of us wrong necessarily.

          • MelvinFenwick

            Doors of Judgement is definitely NOT situational…even if there isn’t an important solo or caster to attack.

            (Although If you’re not fielding any weapon masters, then I might consider it situational.)

            In this game EVERY point of damage counts. There is no way for me to count the number of times I’ve killed something (or NOT killed something) by a single point of damage.

            Remember that a great part of Menoth’s theme is attrition. By using DoJ, you are allowing your model to kill more than normally possible. So even if you are killing a grunt, it still helps in the long run. Especially when coupled with all the other shenannigans we can do.

            Also, don’t forget the killed model can make a full advance ignoring free strikes when using DoJ. That means you don’t have to kill the model that just killed you…you can walk around and attack something important…such as another grunt about to kill another of your models. MOAR attrition!

  • JoeGKushner

    Now super giant monsters would also be awesome. You can use those in RPGs.

  • This is cute and all but what about that sci-fi game they announced last year?

    • I’m sure they are waiting for Gen Con for that. Not Spring or Summer.

  • SleeplessFish

    I have contradictory feelings about this.

    On one hand, I will purchase at least one.

    on the other hand, I’m worried (like many others) that this will push a trend of larger and larger-point games.

    I enjoy Warmachine, but larger games can become tedious. And the expected MSRP will likely be rather high. I doubt I’ll use them often or at all, but I won’t be too worried as long as each faction only gets one.

  • KaneBlaireau

    LOVE the look of these, but still prefer smaller games (25 or 35 pts). Thankfully, have no problem finding games that size in Seattle! When I have time to play…

  • The lads at the club tried to get me into Warmachine with such lines as ‘this is much cheaper than GW’, ‘you don’t need a big army to play’. Their games started getting bigger and bigger. Now look, you can buy really big machines. Sorry folks I am not going there.

    • How are the games starting to get bigger and bigger? There’s no min. points requirement to play Battle Engines and Colossals. Their used to be a min. points requirement to play epic warcasters/warlocks but they removed that in MK2. Bigger models does not equal large point games. The battle engines are large models yet they cost just as much (some even less) than a heavy warjack.

      • They started with 25 point games and then moved up to 75 point games, at which point they had as many models on the table as a 40K game.

        • Dewbakuk

          But that’s their choice. I play fairly regularly and I’ve never played a game of more than 50pts. I could, I have easily enough figures to play at 100 or more but I don’t want to and nobody else wants to do that as a regular thing either. I also play in some tournaments and they’re 50pt too. The only time I would have any trouble getting an opponent at say 25pts, is just before a tournament when people are playing their lists to get used to them.

        • That’s the choice of your local group. Most of PP’s tournaments during con seas are from 35 – 50 points. If your group likes to play 75 points good for them. Technically you can play beyond 150 points. When Warmachine Prime came out the book had encounter levels from 350 points all the way to 2000+ points. In MK2 you have encounter levels from 15 to 200+ points. From the beginning the rules were never skirmish only. The rules allowed you to scale up and down as you please depending on how much time you are willing to commit.

  • Man, I’m really disappointed by these things. I read Colossals and I thought they were going to give us something truly monstrously huge. In the Iron Kingdoms books the real colossals were so much bigger than these things. More along the lines of a forge world Warhound titan. Sure the price would have been outrageous, but I doubt that would have stopped people from buying the things.

    • These are modern day Colossals. It’s true the older ones were much bigger. I’d rather have these though as I think the designs are much better.

      • I’m still disappointed. Also I think it’s a little lazy of them to just slap the name colossal on these things instead of coming up with a new term for something in between a jack and a true colossal.

        • Dewbakuk

          See, I’d have been disappointed if they had made the old style Colossals. The background pretty efficiently points out how rubbish they were, the massive size being one of the problems. I was all ready to have a rant until I saw them, I’m quite impressed.

  • CaffeineBoy

    Pretty cool, methinks. I’m wowed by the models – in a way I totally wasn’t by the battle engines. And the very existence of these guys explains PP’s need to move to resin. I shudder to think what they’d cost if they were cast in metal. Of course, I shudder to think what they’ll cost anyway…

    And yeah, that troll sketch at the end of the video? Made. My. Day. He’ll make Mulg look puny! XD

  • skullking

    I’m really surprised to see so many people lamenting what they believe to be the game going ‘downhill’. Of course a long time ago you played smaller games, there were only so many models back then. This isn’t a board game where you just have a certain amount of stuff and ‘maybe’ you’ll get an expansion at some point. This is a full fledged miniatures tabletop game, it was and always has been meant to get BIGGER!

    I don’t think the colossals will completely mandate you to have bigger games, as unlike warhammer and certain other games, you have no allotments which you have to take other than a warcaster/warlock, who’s FREE! In fact the warcaster/lock actually gives you a discount on warjacks/beasts. So say you want to play a 15pt game with someone (I believe this is what the battle boxes add up to), a colossal is lets say 18pts (that’s 5 higher than the behemoth, which I think is the most expensive figure at this point), you take Vlad (please note, I don’t have a book in front of me, so I may get a few things wrong here), he has 6 warjack/beast points, so you’re down to 3pts left with a warcaster/lock and colossal, then get a really small unit or a really good solo, or a decent solo and a warcaster/lock attachment. and you play against a guy with a caster, 2 heavy jacks/beasts, or a combination of smaller jacks/beasts and similar extra units. That is as small a game as you can play, and you can still use these massive models!!! (yes I’m just speculating at the point cost, but I can’t see them being over 20pts as that would unbalance it too much and completely invalidate my entire argument)

    In the end, it’s your prerogative as to how you want to play the game. I have to agree that Warhammer has skewed much higher in points for games in recent years. But I and many other people really enjoy that about the game. I like the idea of more dragons and war engines and howdah critters making their way onto the field and smashing it out amidst squads of troops and heroes.

    You are correct that PP has made large additions to their games which allow for much larger battles to be had, but they have not lost sight of the small game, and unless the colossals are really different than what they look to be, I think you’re small games with be just fine.

  • MelvinFenwick

    Yeah, I’m amazed at the number of naysayers as well. I’ve been playing PP games since nearly the beginning, and in all honestly all I have ever seen from them is constant improvements.

    I didn’t think hordes was going to be very good…but it turned out to be amazing. I didn’t think Monsterpocalypse was going to be anything special…but I love it (lets not talk about the poor marketing…we’re talking about quality games here, not how they are sold).

    I’ve yet to be let down by PP. And after talking to PP staff about the colossals in person, I’ve come to realize that these things aren’t going to be some sort of baneblade equivalent…they’re going to be the equivalent of 2 or 3 jacks on a giant base, and thats all.

    So don’t want to spend the extra money? DON’T! You’ll do just as fine playing with an equivalent point value of jacks. I guarantee it.

    And I’m not sure where the idea that a basic game is going to be higher point values now. I mean thats just ludicrous.

    The PLAYER dictates how big a game list will be…not the company. The pressganger or TO dictates how big the lists will be in a steamroller (which is the OFFICIAL privateer press tournament format), not PP. The standard game size I see everywhere is still 35 points….even with battle engines available.