Khador Gun Carriage preview

By tgn_admin
In Fantasy
Jan 3rd, 2011

The latest Privateer Press Insider has a photo of a painted sample of the Warmachine Khador Gun Carriage as the first part of a week long look at the new War Engines that will be included in the Wrath expansion for Warmachine.

Khador Gun Carriage

  • riftsinger

    ahhh steam powered combat ….. er horse power?
    ahhh warjacks ….. armoured stage coach ?
    ohh well nice looking

  • I betcha the Cygnar engine will be self-propelled.

  • PanzerKraken

    Assume this will be plastic…. hopefully as the price will be ridiculous if metal.

    • Zac

      Resin. Not sure if the whole kit is resin or just the gun carriage.

  • evernevermore (John)

    Looks like someone dug out the history books on the Russian Revolution and did a Warmachine version of the horse drawn machine gun carriage

  • pixelante

    I don’t know what PP are thinking, but I don’t like it. Warmachine is a skirmish game and it works great that way. By all accounts when you pump up the points you increase the time needed to play 10 fold.
    So unless PP are going to introduce an apocalypse version of Warmachine, what you have there is a big ‘ol block of resin and metal. Because I just don’t see a place for it on the skirmish field, not when it cover s a fair chunk of it.

    • cybogoblin

      Funny you should say that – in Warmachine/Hordes a four-‘caster/’lock game is referred to as Apocalypse, and that’s the sort of game I expect to see these things popping up in.

    • ninja007

      Bigger games don’t take much longer. You “all accounts” doesn’t cover many people who have much experience.

      And it was never a “skirmish” game, that’s an undefined nonsensical concept that no two people agree on the definition of. PP has always disagreed with and ignored that idea since day one, as they well should.

      Also, the new war engines don’t increase the “scale” of the game one iota. They are single-digit points and not the primary piece on the board.

  • I never knew Warmachine was a skirmish game and I’ve been playing since 2003. I mean yes you have the freedom to have a small amount of models by going jack heavy but if you go by model count of an average army it’s far from skirmish model count for me.

  • Psychotic Storm

    I honestly do not like it.

    I really do not see the reason why have this dragged by horses in a steampunk world.

    • cybogoblin

      As I mentioned in a previous comment, horses are much cheaper to use than some kind of mechanikal contraption (even a basic labourjack). Sure, you still need to armour them, but you don’t need to keep their fire stoked with coal, make sure their cortex is operational, or worry about them bring possessed by Machine Wraiths.

      Also, Khadoran horses are ded ‘ard 😉

  • BoosterX

    The year is 20,000 and all there is, is War.

  • supervike

    Ridiculously goofy.

  • keltheos

    Warmachine was a skirmish game up to about two books in. When they introduced models that could only be fielded at a higher points level and standardized their tournaments to a higher points level (750 in mk 1 dollars) they started the push toward larger games as the norm. Our play group, which has played WM since Prime, played a 500-1000 point range and were happy with that size it was small when we wanted small, but massive when we wanted massive.

    Mk 2 has already demonstrated a push toward WM being a ‘mass combat’ sized game and these new models simply cement that image. Not that it’s a bad thing, but players who expect and want the old intimate WM game size to stick around should prepare to be very sad.

    • PanzerKraken

      Yea, when WM launched it basically was a skirmish game but it just got bigger with each expansion and the common tourny general game size tends to lean on the larger side. I wish they didn’t keep pushing the game to larger sizes, as the game just gets too slow with these larger battles.

      • BoosterX

        But it’s only normal. Most games have to move out of the Skirmish level or face declining sales.

        • PanzerKraken

          Eh? What games have moved away from Skirmish level? Pretty much all skirmish games stay Skirmish games. Alternatre rule sets or games perhaps might eventually appear, but never have seen a game transition from Skirmish to army level wargames.

        • ninja007

          And yet there is no change in WM as far as scale or how many models you use on average. War engines don’t even effect that. This is simply you guys being uninformed and trying to pigeon hole something you know nothing about, into your existing experience.

          Stop your flawed, baseless assumptions. Yes, these have big bases, NO, they are not a move toward 40K Armageddon. They are NOT. 40K Titans or Baneblades.

          Single. Digit. Points. Costs.

          Can’t replace warjacks.

          • Zac

            Lets take the tone down a notch here. This has nothing to do with you personally so there isn’t any need to get this excited.

            And we don’t tell people that their opinions are “flawed and baseless”. That isn’t appropriate.

    • When I think skirmish, I think under 10 models. Before epics the norm was 500 points which I averaged about 20 – 30 models in my force. Now when WM first came out I remember it suffered distribution problems when it was really difficult to get product in so we either had to proxy or just play with the few models we had. Once all of prime was released we were able to make full armies as intended. If anything with out the epic point restrictions in MK2 I find folks playing more lower point games than in MK1. I have not even played a 50 pt game in MK2 yet.

      • PanzerKraken

        The normal games around here never were around 500 points, that was considered big games. With Primes release and limited model selection the game was pretty much skirmish scale to start everywhere I played. The game just continued to grow and sizes grew bigger especially with how the game turned into a more infantry focused game for many players and Jacks were being used less and less over time.

    • ninja007

      Empirically wrong. Privateer has always, and IS in fact continuing to run their events with a spread of game types, including both larger and smaller games. They have 3 main events they do and none of them are the same points size. Another fact to keep in mind is despite your personal, local anecdotes, MANY MANY people have been playing the game since day one with very non-“intimate” points totals. Nothing has changed.

      If you want small games supported by PP, prepare to be very happy.

  • jedijon

    It would be a little less ridiculously goofy if it didn’t feature two 100% identical horses.

  • mrbushtroll

    coooooool horses

    now that is a heavy metal steeds…….

    warmachine like 40k seemed like ya needed acid to play or understand

  • Will

    I hope this means the Skorne will finally get that giant monster with the turret on it’s back from the witchfire trilogy.

  • Veritas

    My guesses are:
    Cygnar: Electric powered tank that has a chain lightning attack
    Mennoth: zealot pulled weapons platform that has a mortar that shoots Mennoth’s Fire
    Cryx: some sort of soul furnace. Possibly based on Orgoth(sp?) tech.

    and Ios…Grav Tank!

  • papasmrf667

    Awesome! The only thing I see wrong is that the horses are Identical twins but that’s nothing some modeling cant fix. I am excited to see what Cryx gets

  • Matt Wilson has officially jumped the shark. 120mm base. He swore they would never introduce a bigger base size than 50mm. They would have to rewrite the entire base classifications to do so. Now here it is. Stupidity.

    • I don’t recall reading anything like that. Where was this posted?

    • ninja007

      Yeah except you made that up.

      • Zac

        You don’t know the context of what he is talking about so I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion or make that sort of accusation.

  • keltheos

    Which part? The 120mm base is confirmed in the Cryx Battle Engine (superjack) Insider posted today. The rest…have no idea.

  • Yeah. The guy who was with Warmachine before there was a Warmachine just randomly makes things up. rolls eyes

    My NDA is long since up, but I still don’t talk much about what I know. That was not published anywhere. It was a conversation between Matt Wilson and another staffer in the old Ballard office. They were discussing how the “new” big jacks didn’t really fit on the 50mm base (Behemoth, etc.) and wouldn’t it be nice if they had a bigger base size to work with? I brought up (being a playtester at the time) the fact that meant a new base size classification and would make a rats nest of the current rule set. They both agreed and Matt said they didn’t want to go there. Something about bringing WM closer to 40K was the last thing he wanted. I can’t quote that one for sure. Long time ago. But the statement was there.

    I stand by my assertion. Introducing a “tank” size classification in WM is just plain dumb. It’s a blatant play for more dollars from the gamer, rather than staying true to the vision of the game. Warjacks are the “tanks” of the IK. Matt’s gone on record many times with that one when asked whether we would see tanks in WM. Search the old PP forums for that for those who don’t believe me.

    The comments in the blog about how hard they were to “balance” during playtesting just goes to further prove the point. Introducing something that breaks every rule you have written to date is not a good plan. If they were going to put in a new base size, they should have put it into the Mk II ruleset. NOT an add-on after the fact. That got them in trouble before (Apotheosis, Superiority, Pirates, etc.) and made a tangled mess of a ruleset. Here we go again. Adding new rules with each new release steadily breaks a game. Ask any game designer. Heck, ask any player how frustrating it is to flip through multiple rulebooks to find some rule.

    I walked away from WM/H long ago, mostly for these same reasons. 4+ years later nothing has changed. It’s obvious that it never will.

    • cybogoblin

      Maybe they’ve finally come up with a way of integrating the new models without messing up the rules in the process.

      Even if they haven’t, they did need to do something new. There’s only so many unit types, attachments, and even ‘jacks you can put out for each army without it becoming a bit over the top.