Wrath of Kings Kickstarter begins!

In development for over 3 years, Wrath of Kings is now launching on Kickstarter with 5 complete factions.  From CMoN’s internal studio 5 Houses, this is a team that is built from such ex-Rackham hands as Eduoard Guiton and David Preti.  If you like great miniatures at a reasonable pricing, you owe it to yourself to check this out!


  • mathieu

    The same cheap plastic as PP? Damn, that is just about the only thing that could make me pass on these models…

    Also I don’t think David Preti had much to do with anything creative at Rackham, so while I’m sure it looks good to throw in names of folks who worked for them, I don’t think his is particularly relevant.

  • @ mathieu Could you explain the plastic please? I don’t own any PP stuff (not a fan of the designs) so I don’t really have anything to compare it to. I found the Sedition Wars plastic absolutely horrible and had I known I would have just bought metals and resin instead – is it anything like that?

    I am loving the designs, but I am a bit apprehensive of the quality of materials like you mentioned. Any input on the plastic is appreciated.

    • Veritas

      I don’t know what mathieu’s problem with the medium is, but I hate it too. It’s not quite plastic and it’s not quite resin. It’s durable, but it’s too soft to work with when it comes to cleaning mold lines and tabs. The material is soft enough that if you try to carve it off with a model knife it kind of deforms around the knife instead of peeling off nicely like with the hard plastic GW uses. Files aren’t much better as, again, it kind of smooshes the mold line down rather than file it off. It’s an absolute nightmare trying to clean intricate detail. For example, on the Kreoss from the 2-player battle box he had a big mold line around the head of his flail. The flail is covered in little knobs so trying take off the mold line around the details makes you want to pull your hair out.

      • grimbergen

        This is interesting…one of the FAQ responses states they’re using different types of plastics for the weapons vs the bodies.

      • BDub

        I’m in the same camp. The PP stuff feels like a vinyl of some sort – doesn’t like to be cut, filed, sanded, or even glued for that matter.

        I have some of the Wrath of Kings minis in resin – they are outstanding. I was really hoping they would just keep with those.

      • Thanks for taking the time to explain it. It sounds like my issues with the Sedition Wars plastic. Impossible to scrape, only fresh blades and miniscule slicing takes off the mold lines and that did not really work well for all models…
        Nuts. I thought it was some kind of pvc blend?

    • mathieu

      Sure. There are a number of things I don’t like about the plastic PP uses:

      it responds very poorly to “traditional” cleaning tools, e.g. the files and sandpaper everybody has been using for years with great results on metal, resin, and the polystyrene from GW. Unlike what the guy in the painting video says, going over the mould lines with a file will only result in frustration and headaches…
      on top of that most models have many mold lines, and some very annoying ones. Like going over the most intricate details of the model, or generally speaking the most difficult areas to clean. Cleaning a line that goes over a chain is already painful on metal or on resin, but on that terrible plastic it turns into a nightmare
      the miniatures come pre-cut from their sprues, which often results in rather large chunks of material torn off the actual model.
      last but not least (as far as I’m concerned), the first plastic models came out in 2008 or 2009, and the issues are the same today as they were back then. No improvement whatsoever, and that from a company who usually treats their customers very, very well.

      • mathieu

        Huh, these were supposed to be neatly organized bullet points. Oh well…

        • I had that happen too, I don’t try bullet points anymore. 🙂

          Anyway – I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to explain. I know the “plastic” now. Is this definitely what they are using? It is the worst type of material for miniatures that clearly have display potential in details. I am basing that on some of the resin ones I got. Plastic is cheaper, but I’d gladly pay more for some better quality plastic as it would still be way cheaper than buying the resins.

          • mathieu

            Is this definitely what they are using?

            According to one of their comments on the production model painting video, it is indeed, “although maybe not the exact same formula”.

          • Ghool

            I have to agree here; the plastic is by far THE worst stuff to make quality miniatures from.

            It’s fine for board game miniatures, but for actual miniatures gaming, it’s horrid.

    • joshuar56

      I’m pretty sure the Sedition Wars’s plastics is the same that PP uses. It’s a plastic/resin mixture of some sort, or at least that’s what they say. (I know resin is a type of plastic.)

  • Marauder

    Wow, funded and almost at the 200% level already.

    I have to say I think they are trying to be Confrontation too hard. I’m not too interested in any of the factions they are showing there. All of the models look like the more flamboyant ones from confrontation – but confrontation had a lot of just very well done normal looking rank and file troops that I loved (like Griffin spearmen, templar and inquisitors).


    • grimbergen

      Well some of the concept artists (and maybe sculptors) are from the old Rackham days so it’s understandable.

      CMON is also working on the Confrontation v3.5 Phoenix relaunch, so while the similarities are obvious (I initially thought this was the new relaunch/rebranding of Confrontation) hopefully as the factions get expanded more the distinction will get greater.

    • Hehe… Confrontation is my absolute favorite in terms of style and quality and I collect them whenever I can. While I agree with your take on how Wrath of Kings is a bit more flamboyant as you put it, it’s also the draw for me. I want characters to paint up and I quite like that most of them stand out in some way. I wish they had a pledge for just the figures and no rules. One faction looks very much like the Hell Dorado Orientals and well there is the obvious Wolfen ones, but I do like the overall style. However I am not really keen on getting full starters for all of them.

  • Veritas

    I like the Gortsi, Hadross, and Teknes. They’re not rocking my world, but I think they are solid models. The other two though are pretty atrocious. The Shael Han have those oversized weapons and backpacks that just look really out of place on the models to me. So that one may be more personal preference. The Nasier are just plain ridiculous. It looks like they tried to meld Confrontation Griffins and hardcore bondage with random swords stuck onto the models for good measure. I seriously can’t understand what they were thinking when they gave that faction the green light and I would be embarrassed to put them on the gaming table.

    • Veritas

      Actually I gave them a better look and I think I might pick up the Teknes and Hadross. They give enough of a nod to Confrontation without trying too hard to copy Confrontation and they have originality without being ridiculous and over-the-top like those terrible Nasier models.

  • hangman79

    I dont understand the popularity of this KS. Soft plastic + average at best minis.
    They look like concept rejected for Confrontation. And whats the blob suppose to be. They have already a game with this asthetic but with better minis and theyre taking forever to relauch it.

    • Veritas

      This game is the reason they’re taking forever relaunching Confrontation. This game is a larger scale battles game that shares a design aesthetic with Confrontation. If they released Confrontation before establishing a player base for Wrath of Kings the game would tank upon the release of Confrontation. There is still a very good chance it will still tank when they re-release Confrontation.

    • Mahrdol

      Some people are just into the game play. Why pay extra for better material like resin if you don’t plan on painting them.

  • Smokestack

    I actually like the Nasier. I guess I am not overly fond of the female nasier models but the ash swordsmen look good. I also like the more bestial ones like the longhorn. The Goritsi are nice too. I am a sucker for werewolf minis and can always use vampire minis for my pathfinder game. Overall I really like the models. And I am probably the only one but I also like the pp type plastic. I was happy that my kings of war stuff came in that form as well. Also its pretty good deal. I single starter is 24-30 models for $50. I am in for the ancient king level. Which is 138 models + the exclusive model and a rule book for $200. And as the first stretch goal added 24 more models to that total.

    • green_lumux

      Smokestack; those unlocked sculpts aren’t additions to the size if the starter sets.. Unless I read that totally wrong, they are replacing some of the duplicate reused moulds to give the units more variety.

      • Smokestack

        Green, The $75,000 stretch added 6 additional models to 3 of the starters and 3 additional to the other 2. The 100k and 150K stretches added some addiitonal sculpts.

        One commenter broke down the boxes in the comments…

        “Ian Hunter about 3 hours ago
        So I am sure someone is going to come up with a really nice looking diagram of everything you get for each faction but I threw this together so people get an idea of where we are in the grand scheme. I have not figured out the variant sculpt thing yet. But it should be noted that if you take one of each starter for Ancient King you end up with 157 models for $200 ($190 if you got the EB) and a rule book.”

        Shael Han (total 27 models)
        – 9x The Wrath (this includes the three from the 75k stretch goal)
        – 12x Dragon Legionnair
        – 2x Big Sister
        – 2x Dragon Legion Keeper
        – 1x Hammer of Heaven
        – 1x Shield of Taelfon
        Nasier (total 36 models)
        – 18x Ashmen (this includes the six from the 75k stretch goal)
        – 12x Pelegarth
        – 2x Ashmen Hakar
        – 2x Pelagarth Howl
        – 1x Rathor
        – 1x Longhorn
        Teknes (total 36 modles)
        – 18x Union Workers (this includes the six from the 75k stretch goal)
        – 12x Defender Lineman
        – 2x Union Boss
        – 2x Defender Lineman Controller
        – 1x Galvanic Defender
        – 1x Zallak
        Goritsi (total 27 models)
        – 9x Skorza Skirmisher (this includes the three from the 75k stretch goal)
        – 12x Blood Dancer
        – 2x Skorza Alpha
        – 2x Dance Master
        – 1x Scourge Hound
        – 1x Sheildbreaker
        Hadross (total models 30)
        – 6x Sevridan Gutters
        – 18x Deepman Spearmen (this includes the six from the 75k stretch goal)
        – 2x Gutter Friar
        – 2x Deepman Kaxes
        – 1x Deep Caller
        – 1x Calith Reaver

        Irene von Goritsi – 1
        Total for Ancient King: 157

        • green_lumux

          Very nice. Thanks for clearing that up for me!

          • darkendlight

            It is always nice to be quoted!

  • joshuar56

    There are several models in each faction that I like, but there is always one model that ruins the faction for me. Call me a pig, but just say no to fat chicks…

    • Smokestack

      Its not even so much that they are fat chicks… The bald heads and taped up nips are … Not for me. But it does explain why the Nasier go to war… I don’t know if I would stay home if that was there to greet me e eryday…

      • Veritas

        I thought you were going to say they go to war because they need to work off their pent up rage at being forced to dress like they escaped from an S&M dungeon.

        • Smokestack

          No but that is why they wear the masks, so none of their friends recognize them.

  • blkdymnd

    I’m in, but I’m going to HATE working with the presin material. CMON, just use polystyrene for the whole thing!!

    I’m going to probably end up with Hadross, digging the fishmen. Our group will probably go in on the five faction deal.

    But in summary…. DON’T USE CRAPPY PRESIN!!!!!!

  • jedijon

    I saw A) a quest to save 10 bucks (early bird spots – filled by the time i read the e-mail), and B) multiple graphics showing a 12x basic troops with 2 illustrations associated with them.

    I don’t want to play a game with twelve basic troopers, and I don’t want six copies of a sculpt. 2 is pushing it and that’s if they’re “modular”. Sorry guys, a swing and a miss.

    • blkdymnd

      They’ve already started to unlock alt infantry sculpts, not a lot, but a little more variety

    • Bewulf

      multiple graphics showing a 12x basic
      troops with 2 illustrations associated
      with them
      But if you read the text in those pictures you will see that all the 12x (and all the 6x) troops have 3 sculpts. 😉

      In addition, as blkdymnd has already said, they are unlocking variant sculpts.

  • surprize

    I’m too impatient for CMoN kickstarters. When I backed Sedition Wars my pregnant wife hadn’t yet been for a 6-month baby-scan. My daughter is now walking and talking and I still don’t have the stretch goals delivered.

    • KelRiever

      I wouldn’t call that impatient. I would simply say you should have gotten your complete deal by now and this is one of the places Kickstarters completely fail in my book.

  • usagi3

    No stretch goals at all ?!? Is this a Kickstart or a preorder thingy ?

    • Riquende

      There have been several stretch goals hit already.

      • Veritas

        They’ve only hit two or three and then stalled hard.

        • Riquende

          True, but it’s inaccurate to say “no stretch goals at all”.

  • Nightbee

    With all of the early bird specials gone, I don’t see any real reason to buy in. You’ll probably be able to get the same prices from online retailers without paying a year in advance.

  • Gallahad

    Many of the models could be improved by removing the random smokestacks they all seem to be carrying around. However, this really does seem like a great deal at the prices they are offering especially combined with the stretch goals. Also, WOLFEN!!!!!

    The Nasier models are pretty embarrassing. Unfortunately, the whole soft porn vibe from many of the factions will make the game a no-go in my home, regardless of how good it is. I may still pick up a Teknes faction box for the cool hog men or a Goritsi box for the Wolfen.

  • Glad to see I’m not the only one who hates restic/sprueless plastic/PVC minis.

    Sad thing is that seems to be the new baseline for miniature production, with metal dying out, and not many able to afford styrene (even Mantic have mostly abandoned it now).

    Between this and finecast, its not a great time for miniatures in my mind. “True” resin is all well and good, but it has its on issues (toxcitiy and fragility for gaming). Can we find some more cheap tin please? 😉

    I quite like the look of the game (ex Confrontation player here) but I’m not sure I can back, based on the wait for Relic Knights already killing the buzz that was building around that game.

    These endless KS campaigns still see very good at creating an initial buzz, but not necessarily creating enough of a community to ensure a healthy life for a game.

    • KelRiever

      Well, this is what happens when people attach miniatures to a game. If we still lived in a world where the popular fantasy miniature game was something people pulled figures from wherever they wanted to play, it wouldn’t be an issue. But we live in ‘locked in’ land now, where it is your job as the consumer to support the business or they will fail so you better be buying their miniatures. Oh and they are so eclectic looking that you’d be hard pressed to find a replacement for it anyway.

      Do you really think that the point of making such unique looking figures is only for artistic appeal these days? Or that they had the buyer in mind only when they made that decision?

      Wrath of Kings sculpts are at least good. I wouldn’t buy pvc miniatures anyway…might as well just play a board game and paint up minis at that point. If it was a game I could use other miniatures I had for, then maybe. But yeah, I know a lot of good people support WoK, I know it hit its goal and good for them. Just not for me.

      • jedijon

        Well – stat cards.

        Actually, I’d rather shuffle/refer-to a S Card than a table in a tome… 🙂 But nobody says those w/o a sufficiency of card sleeves couldn’t print up their OWN stat cards – even w/custom pics of their models of choice.

        • 4tonmantis

          Actually.. I would prefer miniature companies realize that they can use technology and offer this stuff as an app for tablets/phones. Not necessarily exclusively for those but I would love to not have to waste ink, carry around markers/sleeves, and be able to expand rules as I need them.
          I am utterly astounded that games are not capitalizing on technology.

          • Ghool

            I need only remind everyone of the fiasco that is War Room….

          • mathieu

            While I fully agree that War Room is a bad app on many levels (designed with shortsightedness and coded by incompetents), it is still an avenue worth exploring.

          • 4tonmantis

            I’m not familiar with War Room.
            I’m simply talking about gaming aids. Storing a roster digitally means tracking status, wounds, etc is less confusing.
            I am not talking about a blanket app that plays the game for you or is capable of multiple games and released by a third party. I am saying that mini games companies should be doing this stuff themselves.
            They should also invest in it properly. From Mathieu’s comment, I presume War Room was done half arsed.

            There are design-strategies that could maximize on this technology. Saying that since someone else screwed the concept up that it should not be attempted is small-minded. If people thought that way, nobody would have attempted to fly after the first plane crashed or to go to space anymore after the first rocket exploded. Progress is measured by overcoming failure to create something new.

  • Necroloid

    Give me resin over restic any day. the newer resin formulations are VERY strong(check out Dropzone commander where you can stand on a mini, or the up cominig Warzone reboot example of bending a sword blade almost in half with no breakage)

  • StygianBeach

    I am dissapointed that these are being made in a crappy plastic.

    I would have picked up some Shael Han Ogres by now if it was not for the Steam Punk left arm. I really like the basic look of them.

  • The Beast Rampant

    How does the Sedition Wars plastic compare to Mantic’s (Dreadball)? I bought into DB big, and have hardly got anything done because I HATE cleaning the minis. My first one took me nearly 30 minutes. Since I have prepped easily several thousand miniatures by now, I don’t consider myself to be particularly slow.

    I was very interested in KoW the long ages it was “gestating”, but If these plastics are comparable, I am so out!

    • blkdymnd

      It’s pretty much the same stuff, crap. And CMON keeps justifying it on the comments, saying to watch the painting video to ‘see how easy it is to work with’. Problem for them is, when you watch the video, you see him working feverishly on the side of the presin body for 2-3 minutes to remove what he considered to be a minor mold line. But when he cleans the mold lines off the ploystyrene spear, he’s done in like 15 seconds. Just listen to your community and don’t use that plastic CMON!

      • Smokestack

        CMON just put this in the comments.

        Creator CoolMiniOrNot 2 minutes ago
        The main bodies of the models are not as soft as polystyrene, and are somewhere between pewter figures and polystyrene in terms of hardness. If you’re used to metal figure cleanup, this is easier with far fewer mold line issues since the molds do not degrade or warp the way silicone molds do – we were very careful about this one and the molds completed thus far are excellent.

        Polystyrene cleanup is easier but limits the possibility of doing undercuts on models, limiting possible poses on very organic shapes. It’s easier if the model is completely in armor, in which case you can multi-part the model and hide joins more easily, like with Space Marines, for example. For this material, you just need a good, sharp (!) knife. You’ll see more clearly what we mean when more shots of production plastics are posted.

        The decision to make the models this way, in two types of materials, was a conscious and deliberate decision to get the best of both worlds. You only assemble models once but play with them or display them ever after. We have a lot more experience now and are working closely with both the tool makers and the factory so the results are pretty amazing and QC is quite strict. Finally, if you get a bum model, as always, we replace defective models at our expense.

        Wrath of Kings was originally planned as a pewter line way back in 2010, but we quickly realized some of the large models would have been so expensive that they would have been unaffordable, or impossible to field due to their weight, and we wouldn’t be able to get you starters with as many models.

        • Gallahad

          I am a bit surprised at the reaction to the plastic. This type of plastic is here to stay for the near future, likely because you can make a mold for 1/10 the cost of a polystyrene injection mold, and spin out miniatures much faster than you can with resin due to the properties of the plastic. It seems like a good middle ground between GW and boutique miniatures, especially since they are doing the weapons in traditional polystyrene.

          I haven’t worked much with the plastic, (and maybe my opinion will change once I get my bucket o’ minis from Mantic), but the plastic isn’t a deal killer for me based on my limited experience.

          • It’s perfect on paper for all the reasons you listed. Wait till you have 200 of those little suckers to clean up and you will learn to hate it.

          • Gallahad

            You are probably right. Somebody could make some money selling files or some sort of special blade to clean up the miniatures like this, because I don’t see the trend changing anytime soon. I think this sort of plastic is the ‘metal’ of this generation of miniatures.

          • mathieu

            It isn’t only a matter of the type of tools needed to clean these models. They are just riddled with mold lines, many of them in areas like pipes, cogs, and other intricate things of the type.

            I wish I could just believe CMoN, but unfortunately their opinion on the material they are trying to sell us is biased at best. The only thing we currently can go by is the quality of the material that PP use and which is, according to CMoN, the same for WoK. Which is a material that definitely does not match the description by CMoN in the KS comments.

            I for one will wait until I can see a model in the flesh and can form my own opinion about whether it is pleasant to work with or the same PITA as every other manufacturers using the same material out there.

          • surprize

            I think its becoming clear (in case we didn’t already know) that there are different kinds of wargamer. Seem like me (and a lot of other people) like nice models, painting them up, converting etc. Other people like collecting, and get a kick of of getting massive armies, even though they may not paint them up. For the second group this cheap material, and KS promotions are great news. Seems that people in the first group are starting to realise these big KS campaigns with a bucket full of Chinese-molded/cast plastic minis are not going to deliver the aesthetic and painting experience they are after. As always I guess the middle ground (injection molded plastic) will suffer as high-end metal/resin models increasingly are the only thing for painters and pile-it-high sell-it-cheap spun plastic for the collectors.

          • mathieu

            I feel that yours is a fair analysis, and I have no problem with the dichotomy you present.

            However, I also feel that CMoN is working hard at trying to make us believe the product is different from what it actually is. By bringing up the name of a former Rackham commercial, for example, just because people will only see the name of their beloved late company and won’t know that the guy had no creative input there. Or by repeatedly describing the material as something vastly superior to what it actually is.

            If the product is to be yet another of these games with tons of miniatures that looked gorgeous when studio-cast in resin but aren’t going to be nearly as good in their final product state, fine. Just don’t make every effort to describe it otherwise. At best it is misleading.

  • 4tonmantis

    Wow, judging by the responses this strikes me as a KS people “want” to love but have very legitimate reasons to shy away from.

    I personally like the designs (even the freaky S&M stuff) and I am only slightly annoyed by the plastic decision. What gets me is the use of symbols for combat resolution. At first glance it would seem like it would make things more simple, but I can tell you right now, there is no way I would be able to memorize those symbols.. so every time I roll I would have to look it up.. then re-read and THEN figure out what the heck actually happened. The chain of command thing also seems neat but think about what that means for gameplay. From the description.. everything about your remaining army changes if a single figure dies (typically for the worse). If this were “just” skirmish level that might be alright… but we’re talking about a game that is intended to be scalable. Should you end up with 100+ figures on the table, the whole experience becomes exponentially more tedious. Sorry but I will pass, though I might try to get a hold of some of the resin or metal or whatever previous medium the minis were released in.

    • blkdymnd

      So far, the symbols have been easiest to memorize on my read throughs, but I get what you’re saying

  • chopa

    I like the price. MSRP has the starters at roughly 2/2.5 bucks a fig which is pretty great. Sculpts look good though the style is all over the place. If the games fun enough definitely worth a look IMHO.

  • Orca

    I am in!

  • PanzerKraken

    Really not attracted to any of the factions, which instantly turns me off from the game. Its getting quite ridiculous the amount of these big miniature game kick starters are happening…. and are any of these games getting any real local support? I mean I play already so many mini games, and its hard enough at times even finding an opponent for a popular game like Flames of War or 40k. Got dystopian wars, mmo one plays it. My Infinity is mostly collecting dust….. dust is another one…..

  • I”m not in- The faction themes and art really don’t fit. They are all over the place trying to be unique which I think are too far.

    I mean, a technologically advanced race that rides on pigs? Why not some mechanical motorized cart or something instead?

    • Oink! Engineered pigs!

      Though I agree I am completely uninterested in plot as it does not come much more contrived than in fantasy n sci-fi games in general. I mean if you want to take it that far – why don’t they create robots that have AI so they don’t have to ride them and risk their lives at all? Or have them remote controlled. Bio engineering pigs is cheaper apparantly and simpler – in the world of WoK anyway.

      There is still room for enjoyment though, but I am generally just in it for the figures when I find them interesting enough. I can’t really think of any game that upon scrutiny is not utterly silly (within the realms of fantasy and sci-fi), but that’s part of the fun!