The Painting Frog posts “Bones II – To pledge or not to pledge, that’s the question” editorial

By Polar_Bear
In Crowdfunding
Oct 11th, 2013

The Painting Frog posted up an editorial on their thoughts about the new Bones Kickstarter based on their experiences from the first one.


From the article:

The Painting Frog blog shares its views on the newest Reaper Miniatures Kickstarter campaign discussing how the changes implemented from the first campaign affect backers outside the USA.

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  • 4tonmantis

    The guy didn’t read the FAQ. They clearly list that they will note the claimed value for duties based on the pledge level.

    “The value we will declare is the total amount of your pledge for product. The value we list on the import document WILL NOT INCLUDE shipping charges. As an example, if you order a Core Set for $100.00 plus a dragon for $15.00 and add $37.50 onto your pledge for shipping your total pledge would be $152.50. We would declare the value of your shipment as $115.00”

    As for the shipping thing.. yeah.. that sucks.. and I would hope Reaper would expand it so that orders over a certain US Dollar amount would get free shipping at the least.. but they have to do what they have to do :/

    • 4tonmantis

      Ugh.. lack of edit button.. It’s your total pledge level for customs NOT COUNTING SHIPPING.

      • Mr Mantis, when I pay import duty and whatnot I pay 25% tax on the full sum of the declared value+shipping (besides the negligable duty and some $16 fee to the post office). What I took away from the article was that in Brazil they do the same thing but it’s 60% instead. I have never had the value as declared on the shipping label include shipping as that is clearly stated elsewhere so I don’t really understand how that makes any difference to the end result –> Pay tax on value+shipping…

        The only time I did not pay tax on the shipping value was with UPS or DHL that paid my tax fees and invoiced me afterwards.

        • 4tonmantis

          Well, for my part I didn’t know that you still caught it from the shipping cost.. but at least that way Reaper isn’t listing the shipping cost as part of the declared value as well.. then you would get hit twice.
          As for the rest of that, if the US government would institute something like that I think it would probably solve a lot of problems our country has.. even though it stings as a consumer.

          Like I said though.. it WOULD be nice if Reaper would make shipping free if your pledge was over a certain dollar value.. that would help out as then your shipping would be $0 (unless they don’t care who paid the shipping and still tax you on the amount it cost to ship it..).

          Thanks for informing me in a civil manner basement.. it’s refreshing to be wrong about something and not have it shoved in my face πŸ™‚

          • No problem.

            Basically everything is taxed, unless you are lucky unfortunately:) The law here states that you need to pay 25% tax on ALL imported goods coming from outside of EU. In reality you seldomely pay tax for items under $30 or €25 as that is the threshold for import duty (6% on books, even lower on model kits).

            The net result after the USPS price hike is that I don’t buy stuff from the US anymore πŸ™

          • I forgot to say SWEDEN hehe… The tax and threshhold differs depending on country.

  • Gereth

    Hey there 4tonmantis!

    I got a similar comment on the blog from MikeL to which I responded that I never said the shipping charges would be included in the total amount declared for the packages.

    I did read their FAQs before taking the time to write this article with the sole purpose of helping other fellow hobbyists outside the US to make an informed decision about whether or not to pledge for Bones II.

    In fact I did mention quite clearly shipping value will NOT be included in it.

    I quote myself:

    β€œβ€¦Another thing that is giving us outside the USA the jitters is that the value declared for your rewards package when it ships will be the full amount of everything you order minus the shipping cost…”

    When I did mention the sum of shipping and declared value of the package for the calculation of import duties I was refering to the situation in Brazil as pointed out by Basement Dweller.

    Thanks a lot for commenting on the blog if that MikeL was you! I’m glad this article has proven of interest to so many people out there.

    • 4tonmantis

      Gereth yeah, that was me but that was also before I knew that you guys get hit on shipping regardless of the item value. That was my bad πŸ™‚

  • tankcommander

    Great blog…thank you it has prompted me to check what my shipping costs will be!

    • Gereth

      Glad to be of service mate!

  • jedijon

    I get how shipping costs is a big focus – but you can’t write an editorial and have that as your main character. Why? Because it’s irrelevant to [if proportions are similar to the last KS…and ironically, we’re here solely to COMPARE TO it, so…] it’s irrelevant to 75+% of the audience. That’s not that we don’t feel your pain – I’m changing the subject AWAY from shipping to the parts that are both germane for all and hugely influential – maybe moreso than shipping.

    Pace – the kickstarter exploded then had to come to earth. Read the comments, most people can’t come to earth with it. Even knowing there’ll be an end surge the STILL must attribute the inevitable slog through the middle to some mis-step of Reaper’s. Crazy people, right? I made a day 1 prediction of 950K day one, 1.1 day 2, 1.8 day 10 and 2.4 day 20 with end probabilities ranging in a fan dictated by a bell curve…between 3 and 4 million. Kicktraq’s 28 million can suck it. People’s inflated expectations can do the same. The numbers are what the # are.

    Value – geez, we’ve all got tons of figures. Some of us have tons of bones. Looks at WotC D&D minis. The community was a thresher maw post GoL. You just can’t satisfy somebody with 1,000 figures and “everything they need, but not everything they want”. Our excitement threshold is higher, our purchase impulse lower. The $/backer is going to be way lower on this campaign – like <75% of what it was last time. Again, this isn’t the $50 packs fault…

    Presentation – yeah, that darn $50 addon pack. So people think it “killed the KS”, but I’ll tell you what it did. It didn’t do anything except MAYBE make some people subconsciously reevaluate their need for any addons at all. Not that they won’t get any, but when you’re looking at that thinking – ‘hmm, I only want the dragon, or the dragon turtle, or the blobby squid thingee, or…’ you get trained to think like that. Apply this mentality to the 2nd set of dragons and presto you realize you have enough and these aren’t “different enough” – you hear that all over the comments. Apply it to an addon…apply it to the core set – seriously, you hear that. People saying they’re going to drop if the core set doesn’t pop enough for them by the end. Ask those folks if they backed last time–yup, so the major factor is what I noted above, but it can’t help that they’re being presented with another option that encourages the kind of value/$ evaluation in a NEGATIVE light that the ENTIRE CAMPAIGN is all about presenting in a POSITIVE light with the purportedly INSANE value of the core set…and you realize you HAVE to market things right.

    So, maybe Reaper is letting this thing get away from them a little bit – or maybe they’re somewhere between victims of their own success and the plain-jane-inevitability of the human psyche. Comparisons between KS 1 & 2 are inevitable–and depending what use you’re putting them toward…potentially useful. But yeah, I think we got this thing pegged pretty well – don’t you?

    • Most assuredly.

    • Veritas

      Yep, the $50 add-on pack is what’s causing me not to back this time around. For me it seems like the core set is Bones KS 2 and the add-on pack is Bones KS 2.5. It’s not a cohesive whole.

      • 4tonmantis

        I look at it like this.. the base core pack is like .50 a model or somesuch. Is it as crazy a deal as last time? No.. not yet anyway.. but anyone who thinks the core set ISN’T a good deal is jaded or has inflated expectations.
        The $50 add on is “intended” to be focused on larger models. It’s not confusing and it isn’t a mess.. they just recognize that they can’t afford to shove a bunch of huge models into the $100 level and still be able to cover costs etc.

    • Gereth

      Hey there JediJon.

      The comparison between both KS campaigns isn’t being made in order to say the first was better or worse than the second, instead the idea is to show people things are indeed different and that one just shouldn’t jump blindly into it.

      The Painting Frog Blog is a blog aimed at the portuguese speaking community in Brazil, in which I’ve chosen to write in english as well to reach a broader audience and to show we exist.

      A lot of people here don’t speak english fluently and could pledge to Bones II without being fully aware changes were made from the first time around. That is why the article was written and in that sense comparisons are necessary.

      I never said this wasn’t a great deal or that people shouldn’t back, nor am I ablivious to the fact you get a ton of miniatures for what you’re pledging. Neither did I choose to comment on the critics being made against the quality of the miniatures from the first KS campaign.

      I just want my fellow hobbyist to take an informed decision and not be surprised when he gets charges another 100 dollars for shipping after purchasing every single add-on for the incredible prices being offered in the KS without knowing he’s have to pay that.

      • Gereth

        And having said that I agree with a lot of what you mention about this second KS! πŸ˜‰

  • Nightbee

    For me, a key selling point was that the material wouldn’t require priming. That claim is simply not true, and is a good example of the pitfalls involved in ordering a ton of product sight unseen. I don’t plan to buy any Bones in the foreseeable future, let alone another hundred pieces or whatever.

  • usagi3

    ?!? I am painting mine without priming, it’s working like a charm…

  • Nightbee

    Really? I’ve seen models painted by three different people, and they all have paint rubbing off to varied extents. Granted, they’re all being used in a game that requires a lot of handling, but they are all losing paint at a pace much more rapid than what you see with primed miniatures.

    • 4tonmantis

      Are they washing the models? The FAQ and many people all say that you don’t need to prime but DO need to wash.

      Also.. sealing them would help too. The point of the primer has nothing to do with the paint rubbing off.. primer is so the surface will take paint in the first place. Sealer was created to keep it on (I believe this is also mentioned in various places).

      • KelRiever

        Priming does help paint to stick to a model better, but yes, sealing it is really the one component that makes it stay on best.

        Anyway, you can paint anything not primed. You can paint metal not primed. It isn’t like the paint won’t stick at all. Still, it goes a long way and if I was painting anything even semi-seriously, I’d prime it and seal it.