Reaper Miniatures launches CAV Kickstarter

By Polar_Bear
In Crowdfunding
Sep 1st, 2014
30 Comments
647 Views

Reaper Miniatures looks to bring out a new edition of CAV and some new minis with their new Kickstarter.
And it’s already funded! So on to stretch goals for the next 26 days.

CAV

Source

From the campaign:

Reaper’s CAV: Strike Operations (C: SO), in partnership with Talon Games, is a project to ramp up the production of the CAV miniatures line in high-quality plastic and get you the game models you want now at an incredible introductory price as we ramp up for the release with an all-new game edition.

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  • Myrthe

    Hmmm … they launch a new Kickstarter a week after they say that fulfillment for Bones II has fallen behind when it was to begin shipping next month ?

    Looks pretty lame on the surface, even if delays are due to wanting to improve sculpts (this late ?) and if this CAV Kickstarter is a much smaller scale.

    • Soulfinger

      But they need to do a KS to pay for the molds and expand the line so that they can ship you the models that have already been produced from molds already paid for . . . wait, what? I guess it is the stretch and buy-in models that they still need to make molds for, which is why the pics for those look sharper and more detailed than the core pledge pics, which resemble those awful 1990s era Battletech starter plastics.

      I was thrilled with the googolplex minis I got from the first Bones KS, but only for the affordability factor. $100 for 34 bendy Bones models certainly doesn’t float my boat. Has anyone here played CAV? Is it any good?

      • KelRiever

        I saw the rules of the past and wasn’t too impressed. Some good ideas, execution was meh. I am also the person who did not like the 2nd edition of the Heavy Gear rules I saw either…those were too convoluted without much enjoyment. Having said that, I’d give either system another try.

        BattleTech is really the best for wargaming imo, and I mean before the Clan War crap. It also had a terrible rpg system. But if you want to use mechs to shoot stuff, BT is where it is at. Now, they had the FUGLIEST miniatures and still do. Tbh, I’d rather take the BT system, design mechs that looked like CAV miniatures, and then play with CAV’s miniatures. I suspect Reaper thought other people might do this too, but alas, people feel the need (it seems to me) to be beholded to one company for rules and their miniatures. Which is a shame.

        • Soulfinger

          If you like Battletech then please do track down a copy of Centurion and/or Interceptor — both from FASA. Grav tanks and space fighters respectively with some great mechanics, many of which were used near the end of the company’s lifespan for Crimson Skies (before the license went to Wizkids). The whole Renegade Legion line, of which the aforementioned two games were a part, ranged from role playing to planetary conquest to grav chariot racing. If I understand correctly, their capitol ship game, Leviathan, was used as the basis for Battletech’s Aerotech material. Generally cheap copies on eBay and the minis are still produced by CinC. I think you’ll like it, assuming you don’t own it already.

          • KelRiever

            I like you, Soulfinger, because your taste in games is excellent 😀

            Someday I might again. I have friends who have much rescued material. Too little time to do what I want right now. After a repeat horror story that crushed all my group’s nostalgia for 2nd edition 40k (yes it was bad after all), there’s a tailspin lack of agreement of any game to play right now. Mostly because miniature games are nearly all bad games. Sold by the miniatures they have and not by any rule set that would stand up to serious play.

            We’re fiddling with our own system now. The likelyhood is a near term return to Confrontation or Infinity. Both aren’t great games but as good as anything else and they have nice miniatures.

          • Soulfinger

            Thank you. My friends had the same experience with 2nd. It turned out that all of the “cheating” that we remembered was in fact how the game was supposed to be played. They decided to stick with 6th.

            It turns out that I haven’t actually played a miniatures game in some time. I think it has been two years now since I promised to start a Mordheim campaign, which has yet to materialize. I am intrigued by the new Warzone, but I know I’d never find anyone to give it a try with me. I have enjoyed Firestorm Armada though.

    • estrus

      On time Kickstarters are most certainly the minority. I personally tack on 2 months minimum every time I pledge.

      • KelRiever

        ComfyChair games was one month, if that even, late. Nobody cares about being late is what the problem is. And really, what are you going to do? You gave the kickstarter their money already. As long as they’re kind of working on it, you as a backer are out of luck. Still, if people cared, they’d back more the people with better track records. But that isn’t what we know happens, is it? People will back a no name with a big art display or a known name even if that known name has been mega late, more often. Marketing…nobody wants to admit it works, yet everybody falls for it…

        • Soulfinger

          I’m more surprised how people will back something even if the whole write-up demonstrates a poor grasp of the English language (usually by a native speaker), an utter lack of talent, or the absence of any business acumen whatsoever. Some fund, some don’t, but they always get more pledges than the creator has generous relatives. My more financially . . . speculative friends consistently complain about lack of editing in over half of the projects they back, which is to say THIS.

          • KelRiever

            Totally backing that right nau!

    • 4tonmantis

      I get what you’re saying.. but they’re looking at a minor setback and they are communicating. I’m several months overdue on receiving my Rangers Salamander suit thingies and all I get from them are silence for months then an occasional “oh yeah, we’re going to deliver them, here are pictures of how awesome they are” -paraphrasing

      • odinsgrandson

        Agreed. Reaper have been professional enough to merit my trust.

  • 4tonmantis

    I love Reaper minis but $100 buy in for bones Robotech knockoffs? I can get the Battletech Introductory Boxed Set for $45. I know that they’ll add more as it goes but I have the same problem with this that I had with the Dungeon Saga Kickstarter and Mars Attacks, and a few others. These are board games (more or less) and they are showing a $100 buy in for the base game? I know there are exclusives of this or that but it’s just unreasonable to me. For me I’ll just wait until the boxed set releases and then when post Kickstarter sales are in the toilet I’ll pick it up for $50 or less (Sedition Wars anyone).

    • odinsgrandson

      Maybe you aren’t in the audience, but go into your game store and look at what the prices on the shelves are.

      The industry standard price for a miniatures board game is between $75 and $100. Many of those are selling super well at that price point.

      And I’m not sure that I want the game that has sold so poorly that it’s on clearance.

      • Soulfinger

        They don’t go on clearance because of poor sales. It’s because people have already moved on to the thing after the next big thing. There’s such a saturation of games that you only have to wait a few months after a release to find a deep discount on some great (or at least, popular) games. Sedition Wars sells for $30 to $40, I’ve seen Zombicide for $40, and so forth.

  • KelRiever

    Personally, I have no love for Bones products, though I see others enjoying them.

    But on the Sedition Wars front, yeah, I saw a retailer still trying to hock the set at its full $150. I bet someone buys it for that much too. Now I’m all for Studio McVey making it but their product prices, justified or not, are way beyond anything that makes sense to me.

    • odinsgrandson

      You mean the full 89.99 for Sedition Wars, right? I mean, a guy can mark it up an extra sixty bucks if he wants to…

      And like I said, the prices are industry standard. McVey’s LE resin line is priced about the same as other LE resin minis of their caliber. Their metal minis are about the same as other metals, and their board game is about the same as other miniatures board games.

      • KelRiever

        All due respect because I value your opinion, Studio McVey uses ‘industry standard’ if they do, as an excuse like Games Workshop. Those aren’t industry standard prices to me. They are overpriced. Those miniatures are not worth their price.

        These days, I find more than a few companies decide if Games Workshop charges X, then they can charge X. No Studio McVey miniature has been purchased by me for the reason they are overpriced. They aren’t worth what they cost.

        Now I don’t know why that boxed set was priced at $150, because I see what you mean. But there you have it. A store was trying to sell that boxed set for $150. Maybe it was marked up accidentally? $90 sounds way more reasonable for PVC plastic stuff.

        When I talk about markups, I’m talking about what I see in their ‘limited edition’ section of the studiomcvey website, for sedition wars or otherwise. Their metal range is also overpriced as far as I am concerned.

        • odinsgrandson

          The metal Vanguard are only $10 each. I mean, I see those kinds of prices from practically everyone (it’d probably be as low as $8 from Reaper in metal, but all of the other companies that I normally get minis from would charge more).

          They do charge more for their resins, and I can see someone deciding that’s not worth it. But their metal prices look about standard to me.

          I’m just confused because I’ve heard that sort of complaint about so many companies, and I’m just not sure what some people actually are buying.

          I really mean that as a question. What lines do have reasonable prices?

          • Soulfinger

            Hold on, let me find my 1989 Grenadier catalog and I’ll tell you. Part of the complaints are always guestimations based on the National Nerd Toy Inflation Calculator, which takes the prices of the past five decades and converts them into what we would want them to be now. I know I’m guilty of it.

            Then there is the “Why buy 5 space marine scouts for $25 from GW when I could proxy a 5 man SWAT team from Wargames Foundry for $18!?” The savings feel more significant than they really are, probably with the person imagining scouts to be more like $40 and the proxies to be more like $15.

            As far as actually cheap figures go, there’s Wargames Factory.

  • Brodee

    I gotta chime in , as I’m on the other end of the spectrum with these.

    I think they are a great idea, and personally think they are better suited to “Bones” material than some of the current minis that are out there.

    As far as the price, I’m sure the number of minis will increase. But still a great deal even right now. These things are roughly twice the size of a normal miniature. Much bulkier.

    CAV minis in pewter were just monsters and horrible to keep in good shape, not to mention the fluctuation of pewter prices over recent years.

    I’ve seen the bones CAV vs the pewter CAV side by side (reapercon) and they aren’t all the same models. Good number have been “rescaled” or tweaked to work better with bones. The original CAV also had some issues with different scales within the same line and I believe that is now being corrected.

    I haven’t played the game myself, but what I have seen being played, the people seemed to be enjoying themselves.

    I probably won’t be backing this, as I have no need for these type of minis (fantasy guy here), but I believe that its a great addition to the line, and am all for anything that brings minis to the table at reasonable prices.

  • Backing with the fury of a thousand suns. I think CAV is great and these 10mm miniatures are going to be awesome. Them being plastic is even better for the sake of conversions and creative posing. The game system in 2nd edition at least is really cool. I love the RAGE game engine and how it works for this, it makes the game fast paced and tactical. Excited to see how 3rd edition will turn out.

    • Soulfinger

      Got to tell you, Bones is not good material for conversion work. If you’ve never handled a Bones figure then I’d recommend picking one up prior to the KS ending to set your expectations.

      I’d love to know more about why you like CAV so much though. What makes it better than Battletech, etc.? From what I’ve read about the RAGE system, it sounds like a typical 2 action, modified die roll game system, so I’m curious how it works so well.

      • Bones is very good for conversion work. I have been doing lots of stuff with the Vampire level minis that i got from the first kickstarter. What makes them great for conversions is how easy they are to cut. Glueing pieces together is simply with a gel superglue (loctite is my favorite brand). When I look at the original CAV models, their posting is boring and static, so i look forward to cutting them up and putting them back together in dynamic poses. Plus the core set comes with lots of extra minis that I can make some good wrecked markers easily. Again due to how easy bones are to cut up.

        The game itself is great, and i grew up on battletech, which was my first tabletop game i played. I have a special love for it, but the bubble record sheets are admittedly a pain and the whole system just feels dated. CAV is very streamlined. The dice system is simple which is good, and i just like the RAGE track system, the same system they use for Warlord (which itself is another pretty good game). CAV2 was good, and I am excited to see how the new edition will pan out.

        But a big reason why I am not into battletech anymore is my disdain for metal minis. WYSIWYG is a big deal for me and I am an experienced converter of Games Workshop plastics. It’s important for me that all my minis I play with are unique in some way.

        • odinsgrandson

          I haven’t posted any, but we’re currently playing Iron Kingdoms with quite a few converted Bones figures.

          I’ve done pretty much everything one does with converted minis- added green stuff, glued on bits from other minis (in GW plastic and some pewter bits). I’ve sculpted details on top of minis, and I’ve sculpted a head on one.

          They are still very durable. I haven’t had a single problem with them- and we don’t take as good care of them as almost any of our other minis (I haven’t tried Victoria Hardy’s drop a book on them test).

          I do recommend picking up a bones mini first, and also checking out the Reaper forums exploration on painting them and try some of it out for yourself (the claim that they don’t need primer, for example- I find this baffling, but true).

          • It is true, they don’t need primer. But I prime them anyway. Firstly I still find paint goes on better primed. Secondly I don’t like painting over white. I generally will either paint over a grey, or black (depending on what im painting), so priming with s decent flat spray primer works.

            I know these CAV minis will come in a gray plastic (except the early bird ones) but im still priming them gray lol

          • Soulfinger

            I guess that I’ll need to give converting mine another try. Admittedly, I probably didn’t fiddle enough to say that I gave them a fair shake. My first impression was unfavorable, but it sounds like you guys have had a good experience. I likewise love to convert. I sculpt a fourth to half of each figure I do, which makes for a pretty slow turnaround time fielding anything.

  • Brodee

    Ya I would def give the conversion another shake. I’ve converted plenty of bones minis and they do wonderful. Paperclips are your friend for sure.

    Also second the no use of primer. Some primers will actually make the models tacky, but you can find out which ones to use and not online.

    • odinsgrandson

      Reaper’s brush on primer is great- I use it on the converted ones where I’ve got a mix of materials.

  • The Beast Rampant

    I was totally put off over the $100 buy-in. Can’t I get a less stupendous deal at, say, $50? You DO know how this works, right guys?

    Anyway, Reaper could rank right up there with the Big Two of SF/fantasy wargaming if the could hire out somebody to work up marketable rules and DECENT BACKSTORY/FLAVOR TEXT. Most of theirs looks like quarter-century-old fanzine filler.

    But maybe they’re OK with making the world’s finest proxies. And maybe selling their at mechs- what, a third, a quarter the original price?- will make CAV worth fooling with.