Palladium holding vote on Robotech heading to GenCon

By Polar_Bear
In News
Jul 14th, 2014

Palladium is allowing backers to vote on whether or not they’ll bring Robotech RPG Tactics products to GenCon before all the Kickstarter backers have gotten their products.



From the update (note: all mentions of “this update” refer to the update on Kickstarter. Don’t put your vote in here 😛 ) :

We humbly ask, may we please sell some Robotech® RPG Tactics™ at Gen Con Indy? It’s only a few hundred of six items: the main box game, four of the expansion packs (Tomahawk/Defender Destroids, Regult Battlepods, Artillery Battlepods, and Glaug Command) and the rule book.

Post your “Yes” or “No” in the comments on this Update by Monday, July 21st. Please try to restrict your comments on this Update to “yes” or “no” votes, so that we can count them more accurately. There are plenty of other places to discuss your opinions about this voting process, the lateness of the rewards, or anything else.

If the majority of you say “no,” we will NOT bring Robotech® RPG Tactics™ to Gen Con Indy, except for the purpose of display and demos.

I implore you to say “yes.” Please give us your permission. We believe it would be disastrous not to have the small selection of items I’ve listed available for sale. Not having them will hurt the launch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ and Palladium Books.

Please make your voices heard. If you are totally opposed to us selling Robotech® RPG Tactics™ at Gen Con, tell us. Do NOT sit back and be silent. Spread the word that we want every backer to make their voices heard.

Anyone who does NOT respond by July 21st, we will consider to be a “yes.”

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  • Gallahad

    Of note for all the poor gamers who backed this is that if you don’t vote, your vote gets counted as a “yes sell stuff at Gencon before people who paid money for this product more than a year ago get their stuff.” Basically they have adopted the “silence is consent” line of reasoning.

    • Soulfinger

      SWEET! I love that kind of voting. Anyone who decided that they want to give Palladium their money but don’t actually want to deal with the hassle of getting the game (boring!), just vote either “No, I would rather keep it,” or “Yes, it is too much hassle. I don’t want it.” Anyone who does NOT respond by July 21st, we will consider to be a “yes.” Also, votes must be presented in person at exactly midnight on July 21st. You will each receive an envelope with the first clue for finding this location.

    • Bad_Syntax

      It doesn’t matter if the count they absentee’s or not.

      Right now there are 3 yes votes for every 1 no.

      The no folks are just louder and more persistent at complaining.

  • Let me just preface this by saying that I’m not a backer. I am going to Gen Con, but I am only mildly interested in Robotech and likely wouldn’t buy it there anyway.

    I do appreciate that they are at least taking the step of offering a vote to their backers. However, this really shouldn’t even need a vote. Without Kickstarter, this project would have taken a heck of a lot longer, if made at all. The backers are the investors, plain and simple. They need to be taken care of first. Period. If that means you don’t show it at Gen Con, then you take your lumps, learn from your mistakes, and move on. Whining about all of the delays and then begging to take product to Gen Con in the same post is insulting at best.

    Also, the insinuation of ‘we need to sell a few hundred copies at Gen Con or else this might fail’ is complete and utter malarkey. I’m pretty sure the 5000+ backers and 1M+ pledged says differently. Obviously, there is great interest in this game and I don’t see it going anywhere just because it misses a big game con.

    Lastly, Palladium has been around a LONG time. I’m not saying they are big. They are a niche company in a niche hobby and the heady days of Rifts are long past. However, they have been around (and able to afford showing at Gen Con) for decades. Palladium is not some ‘wet behind the ears/this is my first game’ operation. This team-up with Ninja Division is new, but even they have been around the block a few times now with multiple kickstarters under their belt.

    My point is, it’s time for Palladium and ND to pull up their collective big boy pants and do what’s right, not just what they think is right for their business. They need to stop trying to make people feel sorry for events that were beyond their control and take care of the issues and their backers first.

    • Grujav

      Let me preface with I am a backer and will not be attending GenCon.

      I appreciate the vote as well. It has allowed people to say their piece. Its true without the Kickstart this project wouldn’t see the light of day for probably another five years if Palladium and Ninja Division kept putting away their profits to eventually make the game themselves and it wouldn’t have the opening set of miniatures that it does have. However people who Kickstart a project are not investors they are supporters of an idea, whether that is a movie, a miniature game, a comic, whatever and they want to support the performer, company, artist, etc… in seeing that event or item come true. Kickstarter supporters often get something in return for their support even if its just the warm fuzzy of knowing they supported something they like. We do not get points in the company, we don’t get a share in the right of telling the people running the Kickstarter how the project should continue on. The person running it decides if we the supporters get a say. That is a privilege not a right from being a Kickstarter supporter. You can of course say all you want in the comments section but the person running the project doesn’t have to listen.

      The statement about needing to sell copies at GenCon to help the game be successful is very true. I’ve only published small indie RPGs and I can say with confidence that a presence at GenCon with product to sell is what helps define your games success for those opening three months (where for many games about 80% of all that games sales will come from) in a big way. I’ve said this several times right now they have 5,200 fans who are waiting for there stuff and we’ve waited a while (not as long as backers of some other projects but still) but at GenCon they will be able to show the product to tens of thousands at the event and through the podcasters, bloggers, vloggers, fans who bought it and took a picture of their GenCon loot, etc they will reach tens of thousands more. It is significant. Bringing a few hundred means they will sell out which will create buzz. Bringing a few hundred means those few hundred will show it to their friends and family who are also gaming, anime and/or Robotech fans and they will play it. Bringing a few hundred to GenCon means a couple of them will be opened right on the hallway floor of GenCon as some con goer and his/her friend then figure out how to put together the miniatures and how to play the game while hundreds of other con goers walk past and wonder what game is that which has these fans so excited. A few hundred copies will make a big difference in this games success for this year and those few hundred copies does not mean that a few hundred Kickstarter supporters won’t get their product, in fact it doesn’t stop anyone or slow down anyone from getting their product. So where is the harm?

      If I were an investor, if that’s what Kickstarting meant and I then had some stock in PB and/or Ninja Division I would want them to take the game to GenCon because that is how you make a game successful. Because I’d want to see my investment grow. I can wait an extra week because I am a grown person and I want the game to do well so I can have more opponents than the three I know I’ll have. To use the above phrase, we fans need to pull up our collective big boy pants and not cry because someone got a toy before I did but in the end it will help me enjoy my toys.

      Finally while Palladium has been around a long, long time this is their first miniature game and Kickstarter and ask any friends or family who have done a Kickstarter or look at the threads for other big Kickstarters you will see almost all have had significant problems. This has been a big learning experience for them I am sure. I have multiple friends who do Kickstarters so I am not so worried when one takes a little longer so long as the end quality is what I expected when I went into the project and there have only been a couple which have failed on that front. It is my hope that this will not be one of those.

      • Well I applaud you on your attitude toward this. No sarcasm here. I don’t happen to agree with you, but I respect your stance.

        I will agree that buzz does help, but I stand by my statement that this game would not fail if they did not sell it at Gen Con. It’s already this late and people are still excited for it. I don’t see that going away. Besides, you can still generate buzz for something at shows by demoing it and showing it but not selling it. And, as Tamwulf says below, a few hundred copies is nothing and will be gone in a heartbeat each day, even if they ration them. The rest of the con attendees will have the same experience as they would if Palladium didn’t bring it at all. “Sorry, we’re sold out.”

        I had a similar experience last year with the Duke by Catalyst Games. Though in that circumstance we were not even asked. We were TOLD it was going to be sold at Origins before we got ours. So at least Kevin and Ninja Div. took a big step in the right direction here.

        Maybe I’m just a stubborn old Grognard, but that turned me off to Catalyst and Kickstarter in general. I don’t think it’s entitlement to expect to receive something that you’ve already paid for and helped make happen, before those who only may have a passing interest can buy a copy.

  • Tamwulf

    At least 5,432 fans. Actually, the number is probably higher as multiple people backed it to get the higher rewards with one pledge.

    200 copies at Gencon with an expected attendance of 50,000 is not even a drop in the bucket. There will be no ripple effect, and most of those copies sold will be eBayed right away. I highly doubt ANYONE will take the time to break out the box and assemble the 50+ miniatures included- especially when you see how many parts each model is in. Who would spend all their time at Gencon putting models together instead of, well, enjoying Gencon?

    200 copies, if they “ration”, means 50/day. I would bet they sell out within the first couple hours of the Dealer’s Hall opening, meaning that they will still be back to “here is our great game, sorry, we don’t have any to sell”, and combined with all the negative press they are getting about the whole thing, it’s only going to hurt the game more in the long run.

    If they had said “we are bringing 10,000 copies, and the Backers can pick up their pledges at Gencon”, I’d be totally for it. Yes, they would still have broken their promise, but now anyone that wants to can get the game and THAT would be a significant ripple and could make Robotech:RPG Tactics the surprise hit of Gencon.

    Palladium is breaking a promise, and doing it for all the wrong reasons. 200 copies will NOT give them any significant exposure at Gencon and instead generates more animosity towards them.

  • Tamwulf

    Err, 5,342. I can tipe, I swaer!

  • GS_topcow

    Jeez. I still dont get this. You all backed the project, you didnt place an “ill have it before anybody else cause im smarts” purchase, it’s not a pre order. it was an investment in a project, and for the good of the project it MUST go to gencon, otherwise every smartarse troll will say “that project was a failure cause it was late…”.

    Yes it was late, that was the risk you took as investors. But if you like this project, if you are going to spend even more money on it cause you love robotech, then be really smart, not a spoiled kiddie that becomes a bully smart, but business smart, and let this game go show how cool it’ll be in the largest most important stage for its kind.

    Say yes

    I say Yes.

  • Grim6

    200 boxes is not a drop in the bucket for 5,000 backers either. Palladium has said that shipments to KS backers will occur before, during, and after GenCon. I’m guessing they’ll ship more than that many in a single day. I am a backer and I don’t care if I get me stuff a day or a week late because they take it to show at GenCon.

    This reminds me of kids throwing a jealous fit over a toy that that someone has. Depriving the other kid of the toy won’t get them the toy any faster, but it will assuage the green eyed monsters.

  • Ghool

    Yeah, but nearly all 200 of those copies will be scalped on eBay before GenCon is over. I’m not a backer, so really my opinion doesn’t really matter.

    All this will do is make some people on eBay richer. But, if they want to sell at GenCon, I don’t see any problem outside of that.

  • Love the classy comparisons here: Bullies. Green eyed monsters.

    I can understand the cringe against the ‘me first/entitled’ mentality. But let me ask you this since we’re using analogies about toys:

    What if you took your kid to a toy store and picked out a bike and BOUGHT and PAID for it. Your kid is so excited they are jumping up and down in glee. After waiting for several minutes to pick up the bike, it doesn’t show. You ask the service counter what’s the hold up and they cheerfully tell you that they had to take the bike to a trade show to generate buzz. But, not to worry, because your kid’s bike is on the next truck and will be there tomorrow.

    That may be a bit of a stretch, but it’s essentially what’s going on here. Now would you stand for that? I certainly wouldn’t. I would not stand there and try to explain to my, now downtrodden, child how that’s okay because “business”. I would pitch a fit as would any other consumer. So I guess I don’t understand why this is different.

    It may seem like making a mountain out of a mole hill, but to me it’s like saying “We already have YOUR money, so you’re not as important right now. We need THEIR money.” That may be “business”, but it’s terrible customer service.

  • Grim6

    Well, if I took my kid to a store, it would be a store. Not a Kickstarter. So that makes it kinda different.

    And anyone who could jump up and down in a perpetual state of giddy anticipation for over a year could surely tolerate what is likely amount to a 24 hour delay without pitching a tantrum.

    • “And anyone who could jump up and down in a perpetual state of giddy anticipation for over a year could surely tolerate what is likely amount to a 24 hour delay without pitching a tantrum.”

      You’ve never met a gamer before, have you. 😉
      said in loving jest for all my readers. You all are awesome! 😀

      • Soulfinger

        I hooked some of the wires that scientists use when they want to get electricity from something up to a gamer and told him that GW is going to be issuing a new edition of Necromunda with twice the content of the original but priced at only $75 “some time real soon.” The jumping up and down has powered our home ever since, but the cost of Mountain Dew and Cheetos combined with the daily gallon output of nerd sweat has me thinking I would have been better off with a gas generator.