New Zombicide Add-ons added to Wrath of Kings Kickstarter campaign

By Polar_Bear
In Board Games
Sep 10th, 2013
61 Comments
815 Views

Wrath of Kings added a new crossover add-on to their Kickstarter campaign with creating Zombicide versions of two of the Wrath of Kings models.

Source

From the update:

Since we cross overed from Kingdom Death into Arikania the last time, we thought we’d reverse the flow and send some WoK characters…. here?

If you’re a fan of Zombicide you might get a kick out of these Survivors! These will ship with their Zombivor counterparts (not pictured).

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  • joshuar56

    Keep gouging that customer base CMoN… Sooner or later that well is gonna go dry.

    • wittdooley

      Where’s the gouging? They’re reasonably priced and no one is forcing you to buy them.

      • thetang22

        “Gouging” might not be the most accurate term…but here’s where the spite is coming from: A trend is going on in Kickstarter lately (especially with CMON) to have these cross-over figures. In order to get the “full experience” of one particular game…people have to invest in other games they may not want, or be forced to pay the premiums of the aftermarket. Sure, the price per mini may not be outlandish, but having to buy into some completely different line you may not want is.

        • Mahrdol

          To get the Kingdom Death x Wrath of Kings Crossover you are definitely getting gouged. Initially the Zombicide Crossover was the same gouging but the outrage on the Zombicide 2 KS was pretty much 100 to 1 against it so they relented.

          • wittdooley

            Get over it. None of these models rob you of any kind of “full experience”. That’s just garbage. Cross promoting their items is a great way to draw new customers to it. That’s why Link was in Soul Caliber. That’s why there’s a Twilight Knight in HellDorado.

            Honestly, I Would have loved to see them stick to their guns and make people buy a single starter to get anything for Zombicice too. If you don’t want to buy into the primary product, you shouldn’t get the crossover, IMO. Again, no one is forcing you to purchase a thing.

          • Mahrdol

            I have no interest in a KD Crossover with WoK regardless of cost. It is not the same scale as KD and has no KD rules. Just because I am not interested or foced to buy it does not changed the fact I consider it Gouging. So you get over it.

            BTW Hell Dorado required no extra buy in to get the Twilight Knight.

          • wittdooley

            And that’s their fault for not properly monetizing that opportunity.

          • Piston Honda

            I believe this is the first kickstarting involving crossovers from other games where the owner tried to make it so you had to buy the base game to get minis from another property.

            Think CMON was expecting to have a lot more money right now thrown at them and it didn’t happen. Just a quick cash grab.

          • wittdooley

            If only because in the past they’ve kowtowed to the super complainers. The point of a cross over SHOULD be to get someone to invest in the new game.

            I’m glad they’re sticking to their guns with the KD model and wish they’d done the same with Zombicide.

          • Mahrdol

            Ya a “cash grab” is more appropriate.

          • Piston Honda

            you seem to have a financial vested interest in this product.

          • wittdooley

            My only “vested interest” is to see complainers and whiners not get their way.

          • @wittdooley: Interesting. I associate your name very clearly with those two descriptions. Change of heart?

          • wittdooley

            I have no idea what you’re talking about.

          • Piston Honda

            complaining about complaining is still complaining.

            If I were a company I would take great interest in any complaints as I could potentially use that info to help grow my company.

  • AccessDenied

    “Cross overed”?

    • Soulfinger

      Sir, you are a man after my own heart.

  • unihead

    204 nice miniatures + hardcover rulebook for $200 – yeah, lots of gouging going on there… It’s a great deal, the game looks fun, the miniatures and background fluff are full of character. There’s heaps of good gaming value there, many, many hours of painting and playing, and it looks like there are some great models coming down the pipe. Can’t see the bad side really – I’m in. Thinking you’re missing out in some way when you don’t get every single cross-promo figure seems, even to me, particularly obsessive. And when it comes to games, obsessive and I are good buddies. 😉

    • Piston Honda

      I thought the sedition was minis was a great deal with high quality miniatures (as advertised)

      It turned out to be a let down.

      Mold lines were worse than Bag-o-army you get from a dollar store.

      • unihead

        I got Sedition Wars too. My models were fine, I’ve painted tham all up, they look great, and I’ve played and enjoyed the game. There seems to be some industrial-grade whinging going on about CMON in general and I can’t quite understand why. Sure they’re probably making some mistakes as any young company would, but I’m sure they’re smart enough to realise that purposely ripping anyone off won’t do much for their longevity as a company.

        • joshuar56

          You are definitely the exception then. Or you don’t know what good quality miniatures are. I bought 3 copies of Sedition Wars, and each copy had major mold line issues, and every single Vanguard model had issues where the parts don’t match up. If Wrath of Kings minis are the same “quality” as the Sedition Wars minis, the backers will lose their minds when they get them.

          • odinsgrandson

            I’ve seen three sets myself (one that I’ve painted). There were some mold lines on each, but nothing terrible. They didn’t need any more cleaning than the Malifaux minis that I’ve been picking up recently (nothing excessive in my mind).

            I haven’t had a terrible time with assembly either. Maybe my group is in the minority?

  • Ghool

    Meh. I’m not really all that interested in these weird, and rather lame ideas for survivors. Even the completionist in me isn’t swayed by these enough to buy in to this KS.

    My main concern with WoK is how well supported it’s going to be after the KS ends. If just about every CMON project to date is anything go by (save one or two, Zombicide being one of them) the franchise is dead by the time it hits retail due to market saturation.

    That, and the crappy plastic they’re using for everything.

    • wittdooley

      Oh man. Can you link us to the review you read of the relic knights plastic! I didn’t know anyone had been hands on with them yet!

      • Ghool

        It’s the same crap PVC/polyvinyl that PP uses, Sedition Wars uses, WoK uses, and Relic Knights uses as well.

        If you think it’s any different, please do share.

        • wittdooley

          Oh is it? Is there a confirmation of this somewhere? I guess I haven’t seen it.

          • Ghool

            You’re welcome not to agree with me. But, I wouldn’t expect Relic Knights, or any other miniatures game CMoN produces to use anything else.

          • Piston Honda

            it’s on their face book page, it is also mentioned in the comment section of the KS page.

    • Piston Honda

      Unfortunately CMON doesn’t seem to care about a product after it has been delivered. Look at the treatment Mike McVey and sedition wars got post kickstarter. They did not support their product at GenCon and Dragon Con.

      • wittdooley

        They supported it pretty significantly at the CMoN Expo didn’t they? I could have sworn McVey even came to that……

        • cybogoblin

          An ‘in-house’ event is very different to a couple of the biggest gaming events in the world.

      • aroberts

        I was at gencon this year and there was a demo table for sedition wars on the bottom right side of their booth. How much more support does a year old game need? Zombicide s2 only had two tables.

  • Veritas

    I was in it at EB Ancient King, but gave up my spot when CMoN refused to change materials. Having to mess with that poly-vinyl crap in my PP gaming is enough for me. I’m not massochistic enough to buy into another game that uses it. I just hope they don’t ruin Confrontation: Phoenix with this material as well. Hopefully they’ll keep that 100% skirmish so it’ll make more monetary sense to keep the figures resin or metal.

    • Ghool

      Then they won’t be able to give away hundreds of miniatures for cheap, which is what fuels their Kickstarter campaigns.

      I will be very surprised if Confrontation doesn’t use the PVC/polyvinyl material.

      • Veritas

        But if it’s Confrontation, a true skirmish level game, they don’t need to give away hundreds of figures. They’re supposed to be remaking Confrontation, not Ragnarok. I’d be happy if they used a scheme similar to the Hell Dorado KS for Confrontation.

        • Ghool

          Yes, but CMON is all about selling you tons of crap you don’t really need.

          Even if it’s a skirmish game, they’ll pump up the pledge value by making you think it’s a bargain for the amount of crap (pun intended) you get.

          You may not need it all, but that’s the selling point of every CMON KS since they started; value over quality. It’s smart, and for evidence of that just take a look at every KS they have run so far and the huge numbers they’re pulling in from each one; even the ‘unsuccessful’ ones. WoK is evidence enough in itself.

          I’m willing to put money on Confrontation being made with the cheap PVC, simply because it has a high profit margin. And CMON is definitely not in business just for fun.

  • unihead

    I really just don’t get it. I’ve been painting miniatures for 30 years and I didn’t notice anything particularly terrible about the Sedition Wars minis. Seemed like normal plastic minis to me.

    • wittdooley

      Honestly, I felt the same way. Mould lines were easy to clean with the scrape of a blade, pretty much no different than anything else. And the few models I have painted up were fun to paint.

      • Gabbi

        are you both saying that you (asking to both) don’t see any difference between Sedition Wars plastic and Wyrd (Malifaux) one? that they are, if not the same, equally easy to work with?
        just plain asking, no rhetoric or hidden meanings. just want to better understand who’s writing.

        • unihead

          I’m afraid I’ve never bought any Malifaux figures. I’m sure there are better quality plastics available – GW are considered exceptional, I suppose, but look at the price – but I was still happy with the quality and detail of SW, and I didn’t find it difficult to do the usual cleanup. (Appreciate the sensible question – I’m interested myself at negative press CMON have received, having signed up at Ancient King level for WoK.) I’m also a big Confrontation fan btw and have big armies of both metal and plastic for that game.

        • wittdooley

          Oh not at all. The new Malifaux plastics, aside form a fiddly bit here and there (archers, looking at you) are top notch. I love them. I think the mould lines are less prevalent, but I still don’t think the ones on Sediton Wars were bad at all. They’re certainly better than the PP restic I own (and dear god, don’t get me started on that convergence box).

          I guess I don’t mind the “standard” cleanup process and didn’t feel the effort I had to put in the sedition models was any more than a standard plastic kit from Wyrd or GW.

      • I think that’s the sticking point that people like Ghool and I have. Its not easy to clean at all, nor does it give decent levels of detail.

        We both paint to a decent standard (Ghool has won golds and I have won silvers in the P3 for example, not blowing our trumpets, just giving a “measurable” baseline about our relative levels of painting/modelling).

        This stuff does not inspire any confidence in me to be able to enter them in any paint comps. I’ve been painting for 20 yrs now, across a range of materials, but this stuff doesn’t clean up well at all. It doesn’t file at all well, so getting a clean and decent finish during clean up is extremely tricky. Not impossible, but the effort is immense and requires a totally different technique.

        Add in that details are often soft, and it really isn’t that good.

        The best bet, is this stuff is pretty much the cheapest material that is on the market these days (all the low costs of plastic, without the expensive mold costs of proper styrene) yet we are not really seeing those savings be passed on… outside of KS of course, where they will happily throw dozens of minis at you for your pledge.

        The material is ok for board game level pieces, where detail and painting is less relevant, but honestly, for gaming standard (and display and comp as an aside) it really falls short.

        Its another mistep along with Finecast in my opinion, others may feel different of course.

        Cheers

        • unihead

          I completely understand your point of view if you want figures at that level. See my post below, but again, I expect these to just be gaming figures and think they’ll be fine for that, and at a very affordable level. As always, it’s ‘horse for courses’, as they say.

          • I do see where you are coming from, it is of course up to the individual as to what they need their figs for and how they intend to use them.

            I guess I just like really nice figs and the best possible material for them. So that everyone from the brandie new player to the top end GD painters can get their required level of enjoyment out of the piece.

            I’m old fashioned too though, I like metal figs for as much as possible. 😉

          • unihead

            So do I, but I’m not always willing to pay the kind of prices they demand these days, especially at an army level.

          • Army scale games are less and less of interest to me as I get less and less time to play toy soldiers.

            PP is as big as I go at present, and that’s getting to a scale I would prefer not to play TBH.

            My days of mass 3000 pt + Warhammer days are behind me I think.

            Its a shame as it has a level of spectacle, but I just don’t have the time any more 🙁

            GW’s Styrene kits used to be the perfect setup for that mass miniature need, but they have moved away from that model to the newer pricing setup and its just not viable long term for people to play games at the scales they would like at the prices they want to charge.

            And of course where one leads, many follow…

          • Ghool

            I have to agree here. I paint to a competition level, and the PVC plastic just doesn’t cut it as a high grade, or high detail material.

            Don’t get me wrong, it’s not bad for board games, and if you’re using the PVC as a cheap alternative. But, for those of us that enjoy the painting more than the gaming, it’s a horrible trade-off.

            Personally, I really love some of the WoK sculpts, and would probably have bought in if they had used ABS/styrene plastic, resin, metal, or pretty much anything else besides the PVC.

            I’ve seen the Sedition Wars minis first hand, and they are not even close to the quality of their resin/metal versions. For board game pieces they work fine. But, again, I’d want them to have some minis to paint, and not necessarily play the game with.

            And for the record, I’m a Grandmaster winner. 😛

  • Gabbi

    Malifaux plastic is, if not the same, very close to GW’s plastic, and yes it’s better under many aspects. I’ve used Wyrd example as it is a small company, while GW has a commercial power that most of other miniatures company simply can’t compare.
    I think that GW’s plastic (I believe is called stirene) is way easier to work with, compared with CMoN ones (that’s about the same that Privateer Press uses. it is commonly called ‘restic’ if I’m not wrong). I play lots of Hordes/Wrmachine, and I have backed Sedition Wars, so I know well this material, too, and I widely prefer the GW/Wyrd one. it’s way easier to clean up, it’s less bendy, if sanded the results are smoother, and it can be assembled with plastic glue, while the restic sometimes seem difficult to glue even with loctite (for SW I used a lot of accelerant). Also, SW miniatures disappointed me to quite some extent, as the quality wasn’t the one expected (by me? promised by the producer? difficult to trace a neat line here, maybe.).
    anyway, thanks for kind reply, I was kinda of surprised by your open defense of CMoN and wanted to know your experience in the hobby, as is quite difficult to undestand who’s writing on the web.
    best regards.

    • unihead

      Well, I’m Universal Head – I do a lot of stuff for the boardgaming hobby but have also played miniatures games off and on (various GW, Warmachine, AT43, Confrontation) for 30 years, and am an experienced painter. I’m sure Wyrd and GW plastics are much better, but in the case of WoK, we are talking less than a buck a figure at the moment, whereas GW charge US$15 for a single halfling figure ($35 in New Zealand dollars btw, and US$15 equals NZD$18.65 – go figure). Don’t know about Wyrd prices.

      I don’t expect the WoK figures to be the same level of quality. To pay only $200 and get 5 decent sized, unique armies (armies that have a lot of character I think; I like the ‘European style’ fantasy of the Confrontation creatives) is good value in my book, and if there are a few little mould lines I miss cleaning up before painting I don’t really care. I go in knowing they’re for gaming, not display or competitions. I think the customer has to decide what they personally expect in a miniature and buy accordingly. So given that, I don’t understand the justification for a blanket condemnation of a company that seems to be supplying relatively good quality stuff at a very affordable level. I’d prefer to reserve my criticism for a company like GW, which is obviously marking up the cost of a single figure to a ludicrous amount.

      I’m not sure about the other CMON Kickstarters, but the SW figures turned out absolutely fine and in the end I thought it was all good value. I definitely think the game rules needed more playtesting and they should concentrate on locking down a good set of rules before doing anything more, but the game is still fun to play and I feel I got my money’s worth, and when I’m buying into the efforts of a first time publisher like McVey I go in with my eyes open, expecting that they’ll be a few hiccups along the way.

      Not that I usually bother to write in such detail about these matters anywhere apart from my own site (Esoteric Order of Gamers), but given I’ve bought in, I’m obviously hoping lots of people support the game! 🙂

      • Robert

        Well said, Universal Head!

      • Gabbi

        Well, if you put the discussion on the value topic, I can’t disagree: we’ve got a lot (A LOT) of miniatures for the price paid, so yes, we can also be a bit more permissive on quality. But if value for money is the matter, and I have to be a bit more tolerant on quality due to the price paid, I’m way more satisfied by the Reaper Bones kickstarter. Still cheap miniatures, still quality far from metal, but way more clean figures, way less work needed to prep them (leave alone the variety, that’s not the matter here). And who could had believed it without trying? Their soft rubber takes color very well!

  • unihead
    • And very nice they look too.

      There are mold lines on them though. I appreciate you saying these are for gaming, so 100% level is not really viable, and I am in no way criticising your work, its great.

      This totally reflects my experience with the medium. Started assembling my Convergence from PP and just couldn’t clean the lines off to a level that I felt was as I normally would, so ended up just letting it slide and painting and cleaning them up to a “good enough” level. This has never occurred with metal or styrene.

    • Gabbi

      well, this is near meaningless (implicit compliment here) as a good paintjob can make even the dullest sculpt shine. I’ve seen very nice painted HeroQuest figures in the years, and nostalgia aside, we can agree that they aren’t example of great sculpts. I’m not saying that SW minis are the quality of HQ ones, but the amount of work they need to be properly prepped is a bit too much, especially if you consider that SW is marketed primarily as a boardgame, not a hobby product (at least, this is how I’ve perceived it).

  • Bellygrub

    This is how the game was marketed:

    “From the mind of industry legend Mike McVey, and created by the finest artists, miniatures sculptors and game designers, the contents and play materials of the game are of the highest quality.. Sedition Wars : Battle for Alabaster represents the best that miniatures gaming has to offer!”

    That is not what I recieved. The only high quality component in the game was the dice…which my box was missing and I had to email in for.

    • Piston Honda

      This.

      The sculpts were great.

      But the process in manufacturing the miniatures and material was terrible.

      Some of the detail was lost or soften, I did expect some with the transition, was not expecting the level that was lost. The sharpness quality of the minis were not much better than what you can find on a bag o army men.

      mold lines were think and heavy.

      require deep cuts which resulted in botch jobs our nearly an hour worth of scraping from fresh blades.

      Material used was not user friendly.

      good for board games. Bad for table top miniatures, which half the fun (or all of it for some) is the art of the miniatures.

    • surprize

      Spot on Bellygrub

      My exact experience. Although I got my dice in the box.

  • mathieu

    The WoK creative team must feel terrific when their projects get more backers from a small handful of unrelated, afterthought miniatures than from a couple of weeks of updates for the game, universe, and miniatures they worked their asses off on for three years.

  • PanzerKraken

    After how crappy the SW minis turned out, I won’t give them a cent of my money for a mini game. I pray they change by the time they get around to Confrontation, as I really want to support that.

  • unihead

    I’ve written an article about this issue on my site if anyone’s interested in chatting more about WoK.