Knights vs. Leviathans

Pins of War is wondering which you guys prefer, the new Games Workshop Knights or the Leviathans from DreamForge Games.
I know which one I prefer. *looks on desk*


From the article:

Ever since word got out, that Games Workshop was doing a plastic kit for an Imperial Knight, debates have raged on whether gamers should opt for the model from GW themselves, or opt instead for a surprisingly fitting alternative, the Leviathan Crusader from DreamForge.

Time for … a poll!

  • 4tonmantis

    I think they both have a certain appeal.

    That said.. The Leviathan kit has several things going for it… foremost being price.
    You also have to consider the modular nature and articulation of the Leviathan kit. The only thing (currently) I would give to the GW kit is variation on the face and if you’re into grimdark skulls and banners.. then it’s got that… I personally am of two minds on that.. but for this purpose.. I think it’s a little wacky.
    This is also ONLY talking about the Crusader Leviathan.. there’s also the Mortis.. and that thing is beyond badass. It’s badass in a can … a crazy cheese can..

  • Haibane

    How the hell is the knight winning?
    Although have to admit, the Leviathan’s paint-job is way more to my liking than the primary coloured Knight’s.
    Have to say I’m seriously considering a Leviathan now, even with inflated-UK prices – the artillery + left-arm vulcan upgrades could make for a pretty cool model.

    • 4tonmantis

      BoLS is stacked to the brim with GW fanboys.. the hardcore kind that really doesn’t care about anything other than teh Geedubs and their plastic crack. Most of them LIVE online (I’m a pot.. calling a kettle black) and jump on polls like that. In the thread there discussing the Knights you pretty much can’t say anything other than “that’s amazing!” unless you want 3 pages of people telling you how stupid you are or a mod deleting your comment.

      • Soulfinger

        You’re stupid. Could a mod please delete his comment?

        But seriously, being a GW fanboy is kind of the point of BoLS, isn’t it? There’s other stuff, but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the GW coverage. The “I’m Obsessed With the New Knights” article should be a tip-off.

        • 4tonmantis

          Yeah.. you’re right.. I just can’t get my head around how one-dimensional basically the whole thing is. I’m just happy the alternatives are constantly getting better and better.

          • Soulfinger

            Really, no demographic is going to match the enthusiasm of teenage boys, and GW has tapped that. It’s the perfect storm of college kids writing articles for high school students, which maintains the game’s momentum. Us older players are a footnote, guys who stuck around playing what the corporate types see as a kid’s game instead of moving on to whatever it is that normal grown-up types do in their spare time, which I can only assume is Kung Fu. I still play, but I don’t think I can ever recapture the excitement that I felt for the game as a kid. Playing now feels more like nostalgia, and really it’s mostly a shared hobby maintained with my childhood friends. It’ll be another ten or twenty years before some of these competing games, at least those with the staying power to last that long, have the same sort of nostalgic old-timer fan-base, who look back and say, “Remember when this game didn’t suck?”

          • KelRiever

            You can say that on one hand.

            On the other, I’m playing 2nd edition 40k for the first time, really aside from one playtest, ever.

            Punch line: It is actually a better game than current 40k.


            What it didn’t have is as awesome (or expensive) a selection of models. What it doesn’t have is super exterior and interior art. What it doesn’t have is more balance.

            What it does have is better rules. What it does have is the same balance as the current edition. In other words, the balance of 40k has always been awful.

            The difference is now you pay way too much and get way too less for that awfulness when it comes to your rules.

            So, current models…purchased from friends and eBay of course, not GW if it can be avoiced…and

          • KelRiever

            …older, better rules. No nostalgia here. Just recognition of quality.

          • 4tonmantis

            The gaming group I played with back in Virginia got bored with 40k and started branching out. Part of that was specialist games and part of it was going back and doing 2nd ed. I noticed that you got far fewer models but the mechanics of the game seemed to be more entertaining. To me, current 40k is so much about throwing a bucket of dice, padding your list with the most absurd combinations, and exploiting the situation of positioning/scenery/etc etc. On a casual level it’s obviously not going to be that bad but it’s still just moving about and tossing a bucket of dice. In 2nd ed someone could drop a virus or fire up one of the crazy Ork devices or what have you and suddenly the table just became a mad house. Characters also seemed to be more grandiose too. Not so much in their power or anything but their presence on the table was just more of an impact in general.

          • Soulfinger

            It may be better, but that’s probably subjective. My friends did a 2nd edition game for old times sake and found it to be all over the place. As an ork player, as much as I miss my BS3 orks and gretchin shooting lines, I like that the stat lines reflect the fluff now. I think it was Adrian Wood, back in the 2nd ed days, who always wrote in his battle reports, “The thing about orks is you really have to charge forward and get them stuck in,” which was insane, because they were clearly statted as a mass shooting army. Personally, I like Rogue Trader.

          • Soulfinger

            . . . and those virus bombs in 2nd ed were more like the game ending on turn one for any army that didn’t conveniently have power armor. The exploitative element of the current edition is owed more to the Internet and tournaments than anything. People have that expectation because they see other people talking about it. We tweaked our lists like mad back in 2nd edition. They were ridiculous, particularly with the Eldar, and I’d expect the same from teenagers no matter what the edition. It’s what teenagers do. Now that I’m growed up, I like making an army that will make for a fun game. I don’t care about winning or losing, so long as there is drinking, and the edition doesn’t matter when it comes to that.

  • surprize


  • Honestly, I am ecstatic to see 54% market acceptance between those that prefer and those that say both.

    • 4tonmantis

      lol, congrats on the out of stock.. that’s a great problem to have 😉

      • Thank you! I am blown away at the response. My initial stock and the standard restock due in today were depleted within the first few hours.

        I have a large order going out from the WGF warehouse to cover all backorders and get me through the last week of the sale. I would expect my warehouse to be shipping these out on Friday the 7th or Monday the 10th

        Thank you again for all your support!

        • Marauder

          Ya, Nosegoblin your stuff is awesome. So impressive that an indy company is being compared directly with GW on a large plastic kit. Keep up the good work (and get some more factions out! 😛 )

          • 4tonmantis

            +1 to more factions..

            More Leviathans too.. I’d love to see a Black Widow re-done multi-pose and styrene!

  • I like both, a lot. It’s really two different aesthetics. The Knight is exciting because it brings to life something I’ve always liked (and at a price more reasonable than Forgeworld). Meanwhile, the Leviathan and the troops Dreamforge are coming out with have a great, cohesive look. I’ll never use a Knight but having one on the shelf would be nice. The same with the Leviathan.

    What I really look forward to are the paint-jobs and conversions that happen to the Knight once it’s in the wild.

  • Hexenjaeger

    The GW Knight just looks better. You get what you pay for, pure and simple.

    • 4tonmantis

      Someone missed the fact and opinion portion of grade school methinks..
      I’m personally pretty burned out on the grimdark aesthetic..

    • Killraven

      Argumentive. I think that, as shown, the Knight has the more likable paint job. But I think that the Leviathan is the better model, and looks much more realistically armored. I also really dislike the Knight’s skull face.

      • Soulfinger

        The skull face is one of four options.

      • Haibane

        Personally I thought the Leviathan’s paintjob showed it off to much better effect than the primary-coloured one on the Knight.

    • Dragonstriker

      You do realise the GW knight is the red one on the right, right?

  • mathieu

    I quite like both. To me it would end up being a comparison of the amount of ~30mm scale details (clearly higher on the knight) which helps give a sense of the hugeness of the machine next to trooper models, and of the poseability of the kits (seems higher on the Leviathan?).

    Two cool kits either way.

  • Check the GW website folks. This is really no longer a valid comparison in my opinion. GW corrected the description for their Imperial Knight so that it now states it is SIX inches tall, not EIGHT as they previously had it. It’s closer to the size of Dreamforge Games’ 15mm scale Leviathan (about 4.5″ tall) than the 28mm scale one (about 8.5″ tall), and with DFG’s sale, it costs more than four times as much.

    • Soulfinger

      Yet, still I prefer it.

    • mathieu

      With that reasoning, the comparison was also invalidated by the vastly superior level of 28-scale details on the Knight. The Leviathan is cool, but it looks like a 2″ tall 28mm scale model blown up to 8″ rather than a 8″ 28mm scale piece…

      The comparison is merely based on the fact that people will definitely be proxying the Knight with a Leviathan, regardless on whether the latter is taller or more coarsely detailed.

      • 4tonmantis

        I think he’s coming at it from a value perspective.. you either like the aesthetic or you don’t.. and you either like it enough to pay $140 or you don’t..

        You can get the original Warzone models for about .50 each brand new and they’re the same size as Cadians and would do the job well enough. If we were comparing produce or meat.. then I think it would be an absolutely fair comparison.. but this really is a luxury thing.. like jewelry, perfume, cars, video games, etc.. you can’t really quantify it based on volume… (well.. you can but don’t expect everyone to agree).

        I personally enjoy gaming.. and I love building models.. if a model is the “correct” one that I am looking for (appearance and whatnot) or I like it’s look.. then that does tend to drive the decision of whether or not to buy. Mantic’s models are a good example of this. I avoid a good deal of their product because I don’t like the look.

        When I am drawing people’s attention to the fact that GW lied about the size (and even used photo manipulation to deceive people), my point wasn’t about value or whatever.. It was me wanting people to be aware that they are not going to get what is being advertised. I wanted to make sure anyone pre-ordering these things is doing so, knowing that they are getting the actual sized model.. not something that has been exaggerated. I appreciate that people might have a soft spot for the GW aesthetic and if they feel this is a good kit for the money then by all means.. purchase to your heart’s desire. I am more than happy with my personal decision on this matter 🙂

        • Haibane

          They lied or they just made a dumb mistake.
          Immoral or incompetent – iunno both seem plausible 😉

          • 4tonmantis

            The Space Marine on the comparison picture on their website was scaled down by at least 25%. It’s why his perspective seemed off and he was more pixelated. Maybe, just maybe that was their graphic artist acting on his own.. in which case I would accept the incompetence statement but when you couple it with their now amended claims of 8″.. nay says I.

      • I wasn’t trying to get into an argument about which one is better. That’s a matter of opinion. Soulfinger and mathieu think the GW knight looks better, whereas I and others think the DFG Leviathan Crusader is superior. I was pointing out that this comparison is rather invalid with the FACT that they are no where near the same size as everyone initially thought due to GW’s mistake in the original description. To me, this would now be like comparing a GW 28mm-scale Space Marine miniature to some other company’s 54mm-scale sci-fi power armored miniature. It wouldn’t matter which one looked better. The scale difference would make it unlikely that you would proxy one for the other. Although I’m sure some will still do it.