Games Workshop is now taking pre-orders for 6th edition 40k.
And there we have it. Let the comments commence…
I’ll admit I’m curious. The big one that has the potential to move my Chaos marines out of their dusty tote is how the Allies rules work. If I can field a force of my beloved Berzerkers (assuming they don’t get heavily nerfed. Again.) backed up by a couple of units of IG playing the part of cultists I might pick the game back up.
And you know as well as I do that this will be sealed like the WFB book, so unless your FLGS emphasizes the “F” and lets you check out a copy they’ve already opened it will be little more than blind purchase for your $75.
Except for the price that i don’t know if it’s too steep for the contents, the collector’s edition and the gamer’s edition look really well. I very much like the big rigid case, sort of byzantine miniature inside depicting classic heroes of the imperium.
I am looking forward to seeing someone on youtube making a video review.
Ps: usually I am always against GW’s decisions 😉
Whoa. I though the $75 was for bag, dice etc plus the book. Yikes.
I guess this is part of GW’s plan to expand the base?
I am looking forward to whatever into set they come out with for 6th ed. Those boxes are typically the best deal from GW. I wonder who will be included? Ultramarines vs ????
It’s two boxes. One will have Marines and the other will have Marines. I’m not kidding.
Ok, so on a marginally serious tangent, the starter boxes always had great intro scenarios to ease new players into the game, introduce the different stats and how they work, etc.
How is that supposed to work if they have two separate boxes? Will they still have intro scenarios?
Back on topic, Marines, yes, but are they ULTRA-marines? Otherwise, doesn’t count… 🙂
Rumours have it that the starter set will be Chaos vs Dark Angels
What?! Three factions? Ultramarines vs Dark Angels vs Chaos? :O
Surely you mistyped – the starter sets HAS to have Ultramarines, by definition, right? It’s about the only time I buy GW, unless another issue of Space Hulk comes out. A few more editions of the rules, and I might have a full Ultramarine army! 🙂
The rule is that the intro set must have Marines. By having two Marines in the Marinehammer intro set, they’re fulfilling this requirement twice.
You think it’s expensive, try buying it in Australia.
If I get the new rules, it will be with the chaos starter set. I hope the new rules are good, because I got lots of models I have not touched for a few years.
$90 Canadian just for the rulebook. I’d really like to say I’m stunned but really, I’m not. What a joke.
$124 in Aus. and our $ is the same as the American dollar.
What? That is quite outrageous… the hobby must be dying down there…
Jebus, that’s hideous.
Japan is the same as Australia pretty much. The basic rulebook is just over $125 USD. (10,100 yen)
The Collector’s Edition, however, is absolutely insane. GW Japan’s website has it listed at $249 USD!!
I’m confused as to if that’s the conversion rate or your pricing.. if it’s just horrible pricing you’d be daft to not order international :/
Except that the Gamer’s edition and the Collector’s edition are GW direct only and about a year ago in an act of protectionism towards GW Japan, both GW US and GW UK made shipping to Japan ludicrously expensive. For example, just to ship one of those Gamer’s editions to Japan from the US costs $120 USD. Basically doubling the cost of the set to bring it inline with buying it for retail here in Japan.
Yeap. Asia Pacific gets even more reamed by GW prices. This is why I stopped playing any GW system except Mordheim about 5 years ago.
Meh. We’ve been using the 4th edition rules at my FLGS and they work just fine, no need to buy a new one, then wait years for the codices to come out.
I like bitching about GW price gouging as much as anyone, but $75 is not beyond the pale here. It’s a huge hardback with topnotch production value (if their past equivalents are any indication). If you guys ever buy non-gaming books, like art books or graphic novels, you know that this is not at all overpriced for what it is. You’d pay a lot more for a 400+ page glossy hardcover book of pinup art or a limited edition graphic novel.
Have to differ here. Spectrum, one of the premier fantasy and sci-fi art books, sells for $45 retail, and is usually ~$28 via Amazon, etc. It’s 300+ pages of the best art of the year. That’s all art, little or no text (just the way I like to read!). You can argue that the $30 difference is the rules, which arguably, are the most important part. But from what I can tell, the art assets actually tend to be the most expensive part of most productions.
Picking one item that is cheaper (though not even roughly equivalent) and saying you can get it online for less is empirically invalid and a logical fallacy. There are plenty of book like this which are much more expensive as well, not to mention more accurate aa a comparison, but that’s just as invalid. Fact is, this book is not remotely expensive or unreasonable for what it is, it’s distinctly median.
Art “assets” as you call them, are not the most expensive part of a book like this with rules development salaries, hobby stuff, fiction, etc.. Part of why GW uses almost entirely freelance artists these days, much cheaper than having to keep them in-house, sadly. I have several industry friends who are now pretty broke since that became commonplace in the adventure gaming industry. =(
$123 would give you a decent buy in to Sedition Wars Kickstarter…and you’d get tons of minis with that! GW is certainly not the only game in town, and there is no reason to slavishly follow reiteration after reiteration.
The pricing is not out of step for the market, if you look at hardback glossy lots-o’pictures miniatures rulebooks. The last miniatures rulebook I bought was a very handsome hardback for $50 (not a GW book); so this new 40K is half again the cost… but weighs in at twice the page length as the rulebook I bought (it is a whisker under 200pp.). Now, you may not want to shell out that much for a bunch of pictures and stuff, because you just want the rules. Fair enough. But if GW does what it has done the last couple of releases, the starter sets will come with small paperback versions of the rules.
Whose rulebook did you buy for near $75? Malifaux’s is $35 and Warmachine’s is $30.
And don’t forget, that you guys are paying $75 ($125 here) as the MINIMUM. You still have to add the cost of the Codexes (here in Australia they’re $55).
So in perspective, in Aussie dollars, to play this game, in addition to the minis, you’re dropping $180. Convert that to USD, GBP, EUR etc to feel the burn on a global scale.
Infinity retails for 49.99. Most internet retailers will sell it for considerably less. Also, the actual rules are available as a free PDF.
Dark Age Apocalypse retails for 19.99, but the Forcelist book (basically, the codex for every force) retails for 39.99. They were considering putting the two books together for $50, but I think they realized that gamers expect the core rules to cost less than that.
Warmachine Prime and Hordes Primal were available in hardcover for 44.99 each.
Dust Warefare retails for 39.99
Cutlass from Black Scorpion retails for 34.99
Freebooter’s Fate retails for about the same (I’m converting Euros to Dollars here).
Malifaux is, indeed 34.99, unless you want the small version for 14.99
I’m not sure where Mantic’s core books will end up, but their Kickstarter gave out the full book plus a mini rulebook for a $35 pledge.
So, what I’m trying to say is that $75 for nothing but the core rules is unprecedented, so far as I know.
A few games come close to around $50, but I couldn’t find a second one that actually cost as much as Infinity (the Dark Age forcelist book is not necessary to play the game, as cards are included with the minis).
That make me think that gamers expect core rules to be around $35.
Maybe an artbook can cost quite a bit more, but most of these books above are full color books as well (the high production values of Confrontation 3 raised the standards for everyone). There’s kind of an art to keeping the core rulebook priced low enough to keep it from being a barrier to entry to the game.
See my other reply and you might get the point.
All the books you claim being such a better deal are also a 1/4 of the page count as well as being far less mainstream even among the gaming comunity. IF any of those $30 to $30 books had the same page count they would be in the $75 range no if ands or buts.
If you took the time to think instead of jumping to conclusions based off your hate you might understand a lot more about the world.
A larger page count does not equal better value. How much of those pages are either recycled fluff and artwork from previous editions, or “hobby related” pages that are just rewording articles that were in WD or online?
I think you missed my point actually.
What I’m really saying is that most companies try very hard to keep the cost of the core book down, and thus keep it from being so much of a barrier to entry into the game. They do this by cutting costs in small places, and keeping the page count low-ish.
And Games Workshop is not doing this at all.
What I’m saying is that Games Workshop chose to make a $75 rulebook. They chose to make the rulebook 400 pages hardbound, instead of trying to see what they could cut to get it into line with what people are paying other companies for a core rules set.
Looking back on how I got into Warhammer 40,000 by saving up my allowance for that shiny 2nd ed boxed set, I really think I couldn’t have done the same with the current price. And it makes me a little sad, honestly.
I’m not saying that the book isn’t pretty, or that the value is not in line with other books at its production value. I’m saying that it is a lot to pay if what you really want is a rules set. More than doubling the price on 40k’s closest competitor might be unwise in a pluralistic market.
You’re self righteous indignation and sense of superiority are humorous.
To answer your question though my first FoW rule book cost me $50 over 5 years ago along with the secnd edition hardback one and both are a third the size of the new 40k book. My Malifaux books, all 3 of the large format one, cost me around $40 each and are probably a 1/4 of the size of the new 40k book. And when I buy my Infinity book it’s going to be $45 and maybe again a quarter of the page count of the new 40k book.
AS far how much the PP books are, did you even look at the page count? I doubt it. They’re again about a 1/4 of what the new 40K book is for even your claim of costing $30 when MSRP is over $40.
All of those books I’ve mentioned scalled up to the size of the new 40k book would cost far more tha $75 bucks but I guess that just ruins yoor hate don’t it and superiority don’t it?
On a slightly different tack… what if we’re not interested in the armies included in the Starter Set(s)? What do we do then?
Yes, you’re getting a marvellous-looking book for your money ($146 here in NZ) but not everyone needs hundreds of pages of story and photos of painted models (that are already in the Codex). Why can’t we get a mini rulebook, or a starter version of the rules? The higher this initial bar is raised, the less likely kids are to start playing the game.
For the record: 40k rulebook, Dark Eldar Codex, and Dark Eldar Battleforce is NZ$395.
There are better rules literally for free out there. You have to simply bother to look for them. $125 isn’t buying you something that is worth it from a rules standpoint. It is buying you the thing that is still one of the most common sets of rules played in a game store.
No, I don’t understand why people keep doing that to themselves instead of making the transition already. But you know, it doesn’t matter that I understand. If people insist on paying way too much for too little, that is their right. I, however, reserve the right to make fun of them. And GW clearly resolves the right to keep taking their money and keep raising the price.
In your oppionion there are better rules for free out there. To some one who has no intrest in your supposed free rules they aren;t worth the binary code that makes them up.
Your last paragraph shows you to be nothing more than a sad child just like most of the internet. If some one doesn’t agree with you then it’s fine to ridicule and insult them but then you get offended if some one does the same to you. How about I just reserve the right to consider you selfriteous hipocrit and make fun of you and anything you think is great?
Wow, no offense, but seriously, you overreacted
Or not, if you really find your GW rules so dear to your heart. In which case, I already have gotten my revenge. So, I think that’s a wrap and I won. 😀
I agree entirely with you. There are much better war gaming systems in the market than Games Workshop 40k and WHFB. It was their prices that originally drove me away from their games, but I was pleasantly surprised to find all sorts of systems that were better value and better games as well (Flames of War, Dystopian Wars are two favourites).
Could have been dust tactics, freebooters fate, infinity ???
I’ve left Gw games behind a few years ago now, I’ll be looking at Dropzone commander and sedition wars for my sci fi fix, already play Dust warfare who’s reaction rules make the overwatch rule look old and dated.
Nah can’t be Infinity, you can readily pick those books up in the USA for circa $38’s. Freebooter’s works out normally at $30… plus both companies actually give away their rules for free, in the case of Infinity the full rules. As for Dust Warfare FFG list the price as being $39.95 on their website, so finding it cheaper in most stores won’t be difficult. I think it’s probably going to have to be the 3rd Edition Flames of War rulebook, I bet that’s got to be roughly $50’s in the US.
I am actually surprised by this, after reading comments here I went to check the danish prices. There are no extra ripoff for us danes. That said $125 for a rulebook is still insane… does look pretty though :p
If it is like the last rulebook, it will have new rules but 95% of the artwork and fluff will come from the pages of the previous rulebook and White Dwarf magazine. All the newbies will enjoy those aspects of it but if you’ve seen them already then it will make the price difficult to swallow.
I think that all GW employees should be forced to wear these. That way it’s easier to outwardly laugh in their faces when they tell you how superior their tape measures are to all the others on the market.
40k Collector’s Edition brings out the fashionista in Space Marine players. You know Space Marines. The same army but with a different color that GW uses as an excuse to charge you 41 dollars for a new Codex?
Yeah THOSE Space Marines.
But why spend your hard earned money on GW’s over priced Finecast with Bubbles when you can do it looking very fashionable with this uber gay Satchel around your shoulder. Wear it with pride 40K players…you just dropped $123 on something THAT stupid
Its OK, I heard they are looking to change all measurements to cubits in order to boost the sales of their tape measure and prevent people from using non-GW measuring devices (which will become illegal in official tournaments). 😉
Pretty sure GW has jumped the shark on this release, yes – if you amortize the cost of the rulebook over the course of the lifespan of 6th Edition 40K…it starts to almost look reasonable. However, you don’t do that when you buy a game. You look at the price of that big book and then you walk away shaking your head.
The last time I spent that on a book was a professional book which I actually used to make money. On fun books – I rarely spend more than $30.
Why on earth would I want a two-inch thick rulebook?
Well, $75 wasn’t as bad as it could be…
As for playing GW, where I live that’s the only viable option. If I want a fantasy or SciFi game, I have to go Warhammer. Of course there are better systems around, but then I’d have to buy (and paint) two armies, just to be able to play with someone.
Sometimes availability is a good reason.
For a signicant number of systems, 2 armies is still cheaper than 1 GW army.
Maybe it’s time you SET a trend instead of waiting for some kind of miracle to convert other people to better systems?
And place of living is not really an excuse anymore with so many online shops shipping world-wide. Unless you live in some gorilla camp in Congo (and I doubt they would have a lot of WH40K to offer there).
Don’t get me wrong. You can spend your money as you like. But it’s your choice, not some kind of fate.
PS: you can get 2 Infinity forces of playable size for the price of this new rule book + 2 codices. Rules are free. Game is awesome.
The trend you’re setting is the problem. Mabybe if you stoped with the insulting people that don;t think the same things as you are great things would work out better.
So you know exactly how everyones comunity is do you? The are you live in has a great deal to do with whether a game succedes or fails no matter how hard some one tries to promote it. Buying on line gets you stuff but it doesn’t get you people to play with does it? But iguess in your world people fall at your feet to play whatever you deem worthy.
Again another superiority complex. Telling people they’re stupid for playing and buying what they like, or can play localy instead of what you deem right is rather lame and childish.
On a final note, what does the cost of two Infinity armies have to do with anything? So what you can get 2 and the rules are free, if you have no interest in the game what you think is a great ptice and game is meaningless and soley your less than unbiased oppinion. An oppinon and attitude that will deter some people from even looking at the game do to your attitude.
I did not call Tomas stupid, nor did I insult him in any other way. I Also did not insinuate that his behavior was childish or lame.
Do you have hallucinations or where does all the extra text come from that you seem to read in other people’s posts?
All I did was telling Tomas that his argument of “availability” might not be as striking as he feels it is. I myself was in a similar situation some time ago.
And btw, he himself said that there are better systems out there.
No worries fellas.
With availability I meant that most of my gaming buddies are stuck on GW.
Sure, we can try new things, but pretty soon we fall back.
Tried with Flames of War, but we fell back..
It is the fluff that does it, I suppose.
Must add that we’re pretty old, and some feels like they’ve learnt what they will learn. 7 new factions in an obscure game isn’t high on the list…
AND to paint armies.
Ah, well… One day… one day.
You can always keep the same minis and fluff and just try out a new set of rules. A friend and I are doing this with our 15mm figs. We have the minis, just trying to find a set of rules we like.
But it sure is easy to get a game of 40k as its everywhere. So I will have to drop £40.50 on the basic rulebook at one of the discount outlets. Thats life.
£35 at Wayland games on pre-order – that may NOT include p&p though …
To be fair most other rule books aren’t 400 pages and as well made.
I’ll be doing the same thing I did with Fantasy though. I’ll grab the small book that came with the starter set for 20$ off eBay. No whining or “gw sucks! Play x game!” needed.
Hard to argue quality with the GW books though. Of the three WHFB 8E hardcovers purchased by members of my group, two of them lost pages the very first night of using them.
Between the price, and the lack of desire to stand around a table holding a 400+ page book, I’ll also stick with the mini-books.
I;ve lurked for so long but I just can;t take it anymore. All this indignation over the price is making me roll.
IF you don’t like the game, or the price then don’t play the game buy the damn book and leave it at that. The constant wailing and gnashing of teeth is just childish and less than productive,
On an added note, for those who keep implying their pet game is far better and cheaper. You do realize by insulting some one for what they prefer over what you do is hurting your pet game. People will not even give your pet game a chance because your insulting attitude. I know it;s hard to imagine but because you think something is the bee’s knee’s doesn’t mean everyone does and if you want them to at least look at it try to not be a insulting jerk or you will lose far more people than you gain.
You are potentially correct, but truth is, GW will not fail due to insults and other games will not fail due to GW being insulted, over simple desire to play. I’ll give you this…if that were the case, everybody who complained about GW would have been right a long time ago and they’d already be gone. But yet they aren’t. Now, I personally don’t have to find value with GW games and think that their rules are a pos (which I do). And I don’t have to understand why they keep doing it. But who cares, right? Assume (and it might not even be true) if their player base is shrinking and they make more money off each player, they can be in existence forever. Maybe one day they’ll have two players worldwide, but those two players will buy all their inventory and spend millions. I wouldn’t see that as exactly successful, ridiculous as it is as an example, but plenty of others would.
And I seriously doubt they’l ever get down to two players. But they could keep shrinking their base if their base thought a $75, $150, $500 or whatever priced rulebook was still worth it.
None of the whining, or the whining about whining is going to change that. So, why worry about stopping either? You like it, go play it. I’m not going to think you should shut up about it, and you aren’t going to make me either. You should stop expecting that to happen.
You get what you pay for. I bought the pathfinder core book 576 pages for around $45 when it came out and the spine has already separated from the book. One of these days I will probably have to buy another one. If I am going to use the book a lot and it is very well made I would have no problem paying $75.
Striker, almost all of the insults and name calling in here has come from you. Relax. We don’t have to agree with each other, but we do have to respect each other.
As I’ve said, our gaming group has been using 4th edition since it came out and we’ve been doing just fine. Many of us have the Forge World Imperial Armor books as well. Even the 5th edition rules, codices and supplements (like Apocalypse) can work just fine with 4th edition with minor modifications.
GW has gotten, IMHO, to the point where it is no longer necessary for us to purchase their new rule sets now, the older ones work just fine.
I’d love for someone to match up the 4th, 5th and 6th edition rulebooks and highlight everything that is the same, different and new just to see if it’s worth buying anymore.
Are we really getting something new, or just something recycled?
Hmm, the book is $90 up in Canada and shipping from the US will probably boost it up to that price as it is (though sans HST that may still be worth it). But either way I will give it a fair shake when it comes along. If it is any good they may get my money after all of these years. If not then it doesn’t change anything for me. Looks pretty enough though. I wonder how much the eBook version will go for.
well I’m looking forward to 6th Ed I’ve played gw systems for a very long time as well as others and £45 on a book I can live with, after all £45 would get be an xbox 360 game and I’d be playing 6th for a lot bloody longer than the xbox game…
People will always moan about how much GW charge etc.. but you DON’T have to buy it!
GW books and Citadel miniatures have ALWAYS been expensive. The RT era Realm of Chaos books were hideously expensive compared to anything else at the time. It’s nothing new!!!
I skipped 4th and 5th, and for some odd reason I’m very interested in 6th. I was more than happy to pop for the Collector’s book. I know I’ve spent more than that on textbooks that got less use, weren’t as pretty, and weren’t able to be sold back for even half of what I paid.
The books maybe, but a boxed set with two Land Raiders cost somewhere around $15 when they first came out, back in the day when Rhinos came 3 to a box. The new LR are great — bigger, more detailed, what have you — but $75 for one. Looking at the old catalogs makes me want to cry seeing how cheap GW used to be, even factoring in for inflation. So no, Citadel miniatures have not always been expensive. The Realms of Chaos books were pricey, but damn, they were a thing of beauty compared to what other publishers were putting out.
Lol this is entertaining. I find it very odd how GeeDub and GeeDub supporters gets ridiculed. Its a persons right to purchase what they want. That’s what I like about the haters they like to promote we are slow or dumb or brainwashed but the truth is we know there are other options we know there are other systems ( I play quite a few and don’t decry another game to make GW games look better) we know as far as the hobby goes GW is at the top of price point per model and to play as a whole, we know Finecast was a mess to begin with(It is better now QC wise not that there are not problems) but you know what I still CHOOSE to buy GW products. Why? I love the models(Its subjective so telling me “They Suck” is not valid) I enjoy the systems(Yeah I know there archaic chart based systems over sexier opposed role systems), I love White Dwarf and yes I know it mostly a catalog to sell me more stuff (No Quarter is awesome as well and only slightly less hawking of product) and mostly its what my friends play… a lot of us. I think that’s why the haters are so fumed about it logically there are a lot of valid points to go play another system but I still choose to play GW games and again I’m not the mnority. To me I love Tabletop gaming and anything that helps promote it or grow it I support it. To ridicule such a large portion of the community as less then intelligent for a retail decision is deplorable and a dis-service to the hobby you supposedly support. Saying GW is bad for gaming is like saying Babe Ruth was bad for baseball. Don’t like them don’t play them and say that in a post that is respectful of your supposed peers.
Well, it’s all about perceived value. You perceive that Fantasy/40K are of something where you are getting your money’s worth. As long as that holds true more power to you. I have, myself, recently given up for two reasons. Number one is that I live in Japan and for whatever reason GW charges double for products here. That’s not hyperbole. It’s double. As I mentioned earlier in the thread it costs $250 USD for the Collector’s Edition here in Japan. I can’t afford those prices and GW has embargoed the country by forcing UK retailers to stop sending outside Europe and by raising the prices they charge on their own websites for international shipping to Japan to stupefying levels to make importing equal to buying locally. I know I can get around it by going through eBay or Bartertown, but it’s just not worth the hassle to me. The perceived value is not there to make the extra work worth it. My second reason for abandoning GW is their reducing my army to a White Dwarf codex of dubious worth with absolutely zero new models to support it. Yes, I play Sisters of Battle. If GW stopped treating both the place I live and the army I play as second class citizens I might be tempted to come back. But for now I am going to be trying out Drop Zone Commander and Infinity for my sci-fi fix.
Wait, how is Games Workshop like Babe Ruth?
I’m probably setting up some easy punchlines here.
Without making a joke of it Babe Ruth is the most know most known baseball player and general consensus was and is that he was the greatest player in baseball ever even if statistically there are very valid arguments he was not, just like GeeDub but he was still was and is good for baseball, just like GeeDub.
@Veritas I am in the US so the issue of international pricing does not affect me but I cannot defend there practice in any way. I don’t think its a matter of avarice but more of a case of ignorance. I cannot speak to international business and regulation but by the mere fact that other companies manage to sell products all around the world at a comparative price points makes me think GeeDub either hasn’t figured out how to or is missing some component in there distribution infrastructure that is preventing it. Please don’t think I minimize this for the international community. It is a shame and it is not helping the hobby.
By price “point” you mean “price”.
Yes of course I meant price by using the term price point I don’t think I obfuscated my point or tried to pull any “These are not the droids you are looking for.” business.
Excellent post, sir! I don’t agree, but it’s very pleasant to see a polite and well-thought out post for once. I certainly don’t love GW, but the irrational hate is getting very tiresome, especially as some posters feel the need to berate and belittle others for their gaming choices.
OTT, I certainly won’t be buying 6th. I have quitted the official rules side of 40K a long while ago. However, I will continue to buy minis from them now and then – though I’ll readily admit that GW prices are getting close to my limits for perceived value.
Fantasy Flight 40K RPG publications on the other hand…sooo good! 🙂
I’m of the opinion that GWHQ releases high-end products like this tome just to watch the Interweb boards light up like a fireworks tent full of nicotine addicts.