Gamers on Games posted up episode 149.5 of their vidcast wherein they talk about the latest updates from Palladium.
In this episode:
Gamers On Games speaks about ROBOTECH RPG TACTICS’ latest move.
…And I thought I had turned my back on this whole fiasco…
Okay, while I think that RRT will not be done any favors by missing GenCon, at this point I really don’t care. I have been waiting long enough for my stuff. While I do understand the whole “Kickstarter is not a store” mantra, I do believe that PB is taking my pledge and spitting in my face. We were told that we would be getting our product first, and to me that also translates into ASAP. Selling at GenCon takes hundreds of copies away from the backers, by default, and gives it to people who have not been jerked around by Palladium for a year. What I’m getting at is that PB should not have made any promises they could not (or would not) keep. They shot themselves in the foot here.
I would also like to remind people that this is not the next 40k, HordesMachine, X-Wing, or even Malifaux or Infinity. This game has a year or two’s life in it, and no more. While I would like to think otherwise, let’s be realistic here. This game is fueled purely on nostalgia. Once people have the minis they want, and realize that they can’t get a reliable game in, they’ll turn to the next flash in the pan game. I say this as somebody who grew up on Robotech and Macross, but also as a lifelong gamer who has seen his fair share of games come and go.
I guess what I mean to say is that they’ve actively alienated those people who would have supported a game with a limited shelf life, thus shooting themselves in the foot not with a gun, but with a bazooka.
I imagine this as the part of the movie where Pacino shoves a finger into your chest and says, “And whatcha gonna do about it? You saying my games just a flash in the pan? That it, mang? You telling me it’s no Infinity? Like my game is just another Snorks RPG or Turbo-Teen expansion for Dark Future? Well, Mister the Next 40K, you know what I got? I got your money. I got alllll these people’s money, and there’s not a thing they can do to get it back even now, after I spent half of it on a big fancy sculpture that says, ‘The world is yours.’ That sculpture is not talking to you. It’s talking to me, because if you think I made amistake . . . ohhhh cabron, you think I made a mistake? No. I didn’t shoot myself in the foot with no bazooka, but I want you to say . . .hello to my little friend!”
I think they were hoping to get a little more leeway because they asked at all.
The number of comments I’ve seen that said “No, but I would have said Yes if you had asked more politely” seems to indicate that they’ve hurt their fan base.
I must say I am very surprised at PB for their conduct. I am NOT a backer, but came across the product after the kickstarter. I can honestly say that PB’s conduct towards the initial backers in this matter has completely turned me off of the game. I love Robotech, grew up with the cartoon and toys. Would have loved to play it but won’t give it a second look as they certainly don’t deserve my trust or money.
Companies need to learn that gaming is not just a business. It is a community. If you don’t treat the community well I don’t think they should be supported.
At the same time fans have to realize that these are businesses and can’t afford tons of free good will or hits when they are so small.
I think it’s obviously that Palladium would have liked to get this to backers first and sell at gencon, but the timing isn’t working out for them. So either they suffer and not get to sell at Gencon to just appease their backer fanbase? Which is only a couple thousand players in the first place.
So far from responses to their permission thoug, majority of those who have voted have been on the yes side.
And whats point of saying no to them selling at gencon? It doesn’t get us he product faster as they are already scheduled to be there a year in advance. Saying no to them essentially does nothing outside of hurt the company, and in turn hurting the game.
I agree with PanzerKraken. The product looks good much better than other plastic miniatures we’ve seen kickstarted by some other companies and in the end I want the game to be successful. Denying them product at GenCon is a good way to allow it to be successful as it will reach through being at the con numerous podcasts, blogs, vlogs, attendees “loot” pictures, etc which in turn will mean it will be seen, heard of, talked about by many more times than the 5,200 people who bought into the game.
This is Palladium’s first time doing a miniatures game and it was resoundingly successful (I also believe it was their first Kickstarter). Kickstarters to backers seem very straight forward and that companies should have no problem ensuring everything gets done for that amount of money and in the time they have but it turns out its really difficult. I have friends who have done other much smaller game and comic publishing through Kickstarter and even when its their 3rd one things get out of hand and simply because shipping rates changed, they hadn’t factored in the book cost if just 8 more pages was added or whatever they find themselves now operating close to a loss or in deficit. Big companies working with factories not in the same country, all sorts of factors can alter how a Kickstarter comes out.
I am still looking forward to the game when it does arrive and am hopeful that the end product looks as good as what they have been showing us as that is what can and has killed my interest in other miniature games I’ve helped Kickstart.
5,342 of us actually. That’s how many backed the Kickstarter. If they sell at Gencon, they are breaking the promise made to those 5,342 people that we would get it first. We, the Backers, gave Palladium $1.4 million.
They are also talking about selling “…a couple hundred copies” at Gencon. The expected attendance at Gencon this year is over 50,000. 200 copies of the game will make no ripple, not even a drop in the bucket. Most will immediately end up on eBay. I highly doubt ANYONE will take the time during Gencon to break out the game, read the rules, and spend the time to put together the models to play at Gencon. There is just too much other stuff to do and see instead of sitting in your hotel room putting mini’s together.
There are much better ways for them to promote the game at Gencon rather then just sell it to a lucky 200 people out of 50,000. They could take preorders, they could have a lottery, they could donate a couple to the Charity Auction, they could hand them out to the distributors at the distributors room… instead, it’s like they are trying to pay for their trip to Gencon and maybe fund Wave 2… which means Palladium, true to form, has grossly mismanaged it’s finances and pissed away the $1.4 Million they were given over the last year.
They are going to start shipping to kickstarter backers first, but again, why does it even friggin matter? I’m a backer too but why the hell should I care that I “got my copy first” when its going to be a matter of a few weeks at most.
And gasp a business is trying to make money, OMG who would have figured. I’m sorry but production problems happen, and because stuff out of their control happened that entitled backers can’t wait a few weeks to claim “they got it first”, Palladium must suffer.
The Kickstarter was not made to simply give us backers the product first, it was clearly stated from day 1 to get the product line off the ground, the money involved was not just for our pledges, but for the product that would end up on retailer shelves and their online site.
If the ripple is considered so small to you for what they are doing at gencon, then it’s also a ripple to how much it affects the backers.
Again they don’t sell at gencon and they are missing out on a chance for money and promotion, all good for the game. Them not selling at gencon hurts them more than anything. As for pissing away the money, that is ridiculous claim to make without knowing any single detail of their financial situation or the whole story. People have this silly notion that if they don’t sell at gencon, that magically the product will get to them first, but guess what, it’s not.
@Tamwulf You say 200 isn’t enough for them to generate interest, which could be true but then your answer is for them to bring less and give them away to people who may or may not be Robotech fans. This bewilders me. Selling a game at $100 price point is not the sort of thing a lot of people will buy up to sell on eBay even with short amount on hand. Its too expensive/big for people who will then have to transport it home before then shipping it out. Small con exclusives have a very high mark up. Something at this price point will not see such a significant mark up.
Also yes, people will put together a unit of Regults and a unit of Veritechs and fight it out at the con. They won’t put together the whole box. Just like my friends trying Infinity for the first time each bought several boxes/blisters but then they stayed up one night put together one starter box each and tried the game, while at the same time trying out some new fangled game called Netrunner the very same night. Its one of the aspects of GenCon I at least enjoy the most which is people getting a new toy and then sitting down to enjoy that toy immediately with whatever friends they have there at the con.
Its good business to be at GenCon and if the reason one supports a Kickstarter is to have their belief in chivalry with a company to be restored that’s a bad idea. Companies lie, sometimes intentionally (diet soda is good for you!) sometimes unintentionally (we’ve never done this before, we didn’t look at any of the previous people who have done this before and we were only wearing rose tinted glasses when the factory we are working with, another corporation, lied and said “sure we can have this product turn around and back to the customers in less than six months”) but that’s what they do. Support individuals running Kickstarters, some of them do their very, very best not to lie. Companies though know they can promise something then hold it back for years and customers will still buy it (Blizzard as a for instance). Chivalry with companies died as soon as goods began trading hands.
Instead try to support a Kickstart because you love the idea of it, the potential product they will someday get to you (hopefully faster than it took Starcraft II) or do it because you like the individuals running it. When you get the thing, whatever it is and it turns out to not be what you expected, what they told you it would be then by all means throw a fit. I certainly have with other projects. For me I’m waiting to get this in hand and then see if my friends and I will still want to play it. However I want the game to succeed so I will have opponents besides just my three friends and this is why I supported them taking units to GenCon. I agree with you though, they should be taking more like 500-700 copies.
Take all the time and expense to go to GenCon (entry fee, travel, packaging, staff) and spend those 5 to 6 days packaging and shipping and meeting the promise you made. It is that simple.