Games Workshop has started taking pre-orders for 7th edition 40k.
And GW puts nails in its own coffin. People are still shelling out for the last ruleset and all the darned codexes. Remember the recent hardcover codexes? Really wanted to fork out several hundred more dollars to invalidate their existing armies? Rather than serve the hobby enthusiasts by building their users by giving them value for money they keep trying to squeeze out pennies as they continue losing market share. Enough. I wash my hands of them.
I didn’t think that this was invalidating current codexes? Although sure, any changes to the base rules are bound to change the value of the various options. Also, does “several hundred Dollars” mean 80USD in hyperbole language? – you don’t have to get the stupidly expensive collectors edition you know.
I do quite like the graphic design of the covers.
I believe he’s referring to the inevitable new codices that will spring from this.
At the very least, codices that don’t have hull points and up to date magic/psyker info, etc.. will probably be redone. Then again, I figured that would be a sure sign Orks would get a new book too for 6th ed but that didn’t pan out.
If you have two 40K armies, which is pretty common for anyone who’s been playing for a while, you’re well into the hundreds with primary codices and supplemental codices and the rule book. Add in the supplements to the main rulebook and it gets even worse. GW has pushed the prices into ridiculous territory. Add to the book cost the inevitable changes wrought by rules changes. I’ve been through this since 3rd Ed. One edition is all assaulting. The next it becomes an off-road rally full of transports. Then people all start singing “Fliegerlied“. Each time, the armies get retooled and the costs go up, which is kind of the point. I’m not oblivious to that, but to do it so soon feels like they’re soaking the customer in an especially egregious way, no longer content with just jacking up figure costs while shrinking the model counts within boxes and increasing them within units.
Does their claim of “bigger and better than ever” take into account a bigger buy-in? You know, a lot of companies that make their money selling miniatures want to get you in the door with the rules, to sell you the lead.
But then, GW thinks “loss leader” is just a -1 squad ‘to rally’ modifier.
But hey: if there’s squats and slann, I’ll pre-order my copy. And maybe they’ll get out the minis and I can get a game or two in, before the Apocalypse is in full swing.
why are people still shocked by what is in my opinion blatant fleecing of their customers, as GW will NEVER stop doing this every 4 yers or so, and i also hear that WFB will also be getting a new rulebook soon.
simply agree amongst your gaming companions to stick with 6th and the WFB players to do same with the current rules and maybe if enough players do this and they sell less books / lose money on the books they will finally treat their customers with respect as their success is built on their customers hard earned cash… something they seem to forget or just completely ignore (still).
I stopped playing GW games about 5 years ago, so don’t know the full details of their current rulesets. But it seems to me that these constant new versions are actually needed because they’ve never written a good core ruleset in the first place. There were issues with Rogue Trader, (mainly due to it basically being a ranged skirmish adaptation of a unit-to-unit fantasy ruleset with a hero focus) these were hamfistedly dealt with for 2nd Ed without addressing the core mechanics issues, and since then they’ve never stripped it right back and started again. So every issue it’s rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, tweaking some cover rules here, movement rules there, all so that the new rules can still fit with the old codexes. Made even worse by the fact battles get bigger and bigger. Now you are basically moving titans and dropships around with rules written for a barbarian hitting two goblins with a sword.
So in short I don’t condemn them for constantly issuing new editions and add-ons. I condemn them for not producing decent rules in the first place, that do then necessitate changes in relatively short order. Whether this is actually a deliberate ploy is open to debate.
You hit on one of the primary problems GW wrestles with in each addition. Gamers want bigger and better. They want giant demons to fight space ships and giant robots while fielding sorcerers and goblins and they want the whole mess to appear balanced so they can play in competitive tournaments and not feel cheated.
By most accounts, GW did a really good job of that in 6th. The problem is that in doing so, they created a ruleset so convoluted that it requires three lawyers and a rabbi to sort it out and an entire afternoon to play a single game. No matter how hard they try to make it good, it will always be rooted in the kitchen sink mess that it is, which is the kitchen sink mess that its fans want.
If someone is still buying a Games Workshop product, they deserve exactly what they get. The best revenge to have on them is to let them keep buying.
A new edition doesn’t mean you have to run out and buy it. If you like the rules you use now keep playing them. I know people that enjoy playing RT and 2ed. 40K. I’m going to play some 1ed. Warhammer (“The Mass Combat Fantasy Role-Playing Game”) later in May.
A new edition doesn’t mean you have to run out and buy it.
Well if your gamer friends do then you sort of have to 🙂
I know people that enjoy playing RT and 2ed. 40K.
I played some 2nd Edition myself. I suspect that people playing 20+ year old versions of the game though are probably in the minority and almost assuredly not GW’s current market 🙂
New Zealanders continue to get shafted.
It costs US$85, which at current exchange rate is NZ$98. However, the local price is NZ$165.
Who is this game targeting? The super rich? Are they intentionally trying to drive their business into the ground?
Who remembers the days when GW was affordable to kids?
New Zealanders continue to get shafted.
Its because the folks at GW are jealous of how beautiful your country is.
I bought the Goblin town set, and that is all I have spent on GW in more than 5 years. End the madness stop supporting this monster that is scheming how to take your gaming dollars.
End the madness stop supporting this monster that is scheming how to take your gaming dollars.
That’s what they all do.
Sure, on one hand, I am positive if given the chance most any company known in miniature world would do the same thing. In fact, it is pretty obvious two game companies at least follow the same footsteps, though of course their fans SWEAR they are different.
On the other hand, whether they can or don’t, I see no game company charging such outrageous prices for rules. And while I think miniature game companies have used GW as an excuse to ask people to pay far too much for a miniature, at the same time most don’t (or can’t) ask people to play with so many miniatures for their basic recommended game.
Every company likes to use the excuse “play whatever scale you’d like” but all know that people gravitate to the recommended scale on ‘points’ in their books. And in that regard again, no company has had such a gross inflation of number of figures needed to fill that recommended point cost as GW.
So I think there’s a pretty big difference between other game companies and GW. But I think a person is foolish to believe some other company is less ‘mad’
I think you are way too hostile on this subject.
Privateer Press as an example.. has miniatures that are extremely expensive.
However, if you compare a few things you will see that they really are very very different than GW.
Cost to get into the game:
Warmachine Battlebox on Amazon $65
40k DV Starter on Amazon $90.86
Model count for an average tournament sized game:
Warmachine: 8-15 (guestemate) 35 pts
40k: 6-150+ (1850)
Take the above and consider the following:
The 2 player starter box “can” give you a full 35 point list if you use the solos etc.. it’s not ideal but it is there.
The 40k starter doesn’t even give you half an army (1850).
For the most part, PP units are not going to be swept over every few years. You don’t have to buy a whole new army book.. if you need any cards they are available on the PP webstore for .50 each.
If you don’t want the Warmachine Starter.. you can buy the Prime Mk2 rule books for $30 or the hard cover for $45.
The only way PP costs get close to 40k, is if you are a PP collector and buy every new release…. and there is literally no reason to do that other than just wanting the models. With 40k, they structure the releases and rules changes to make it so that you either can’t use an old model anymore or previous models are now undesirable and a new model is needed to remain competitive.
You forget the part where a lot of major Warmachine tournaments have you bring 2 lists to help eliminate the rock-paper-scissors results. So double the needed models for that.
Ah.. I don’t play in tournaments so was unaware of such a requirement.. That seems like a FLGS thing though more than an actual PP ruling.. Either way.. do your 2 lists have to have completely different models? Could you not simply swap out a jack or solo or something?
It’s required in the Masters tournament ruleset from PP, and optional in Steamroller. In both rulesets you’re not allowed to duplicate models between the lists. You can do one list with epic caster and one with normal (same caster), but you couldn’t do same epic caster in multiple lists. That also goes for troops, jacks, and solos.
One thing a simple price comparison doesn’t account for is the number of duplicates per box, or of reused parts from one box to another (within the same army or now across armies). Another is the constant increase in quality we observe on the GW side (plastic kits are getting more and more impressive and engineered to conceal mould lines once assembled), while PP is still struggling with that appalling cheap plastic they decided to use back when everybody was on that bandwagon.
I definitely agree that GW miniatures are too expensive per miniature, but I don’t feel that the strategy adopted by PP of cheaply made miniatures and duplicates to increase margin is any better. Matter of fact, I still play WM but can’t get around to buying models any longer (except for the occasional cool metal piece — which once upon a time weren’t that occasional…). I probably buy more 40k models even though I don’t play the game nor have any intention to.
That’s a good point up to a point. GW has made many strides in improving their miniatures. Then again, they’ve also taken giant leaps back with shit like Finecast and leaving models like the Leman Russ and the Space Marine bike in production so long. They’re models from the distant past with prices from the distant future.
That is fair, but on the other hand, the finecast debacle (which was a good idea on paper, and when you were lucky to get the odd clean cast piece) only lasted a bit over 2 years and moved to the near-perfect full plastic. PP plastics have been around for almost 5 years now and don’t seem to be going anywhere, nor to be getting any better. (Incidentally and regardless of why and how it happened, this is an example of GW actually listening to their customer base and of PP ignoring theirs…).
Have you seen recently purchased PP figures? I am genuinely asking.. I know they built a bad rep just like finecast did.. and most people who still trash-talk finecast haven’t seen a recent iteration of that line.. I assume the same for PP figures.. I haven’t seen either finecast or a PP figure in at least 2 years (in person) so I sincerely can’t speak from personal experience on either of those. The brand spankin new GW plastics are something I have seen… they are of high quality as far as casting. However, I am not a fan of a)the goofy oversized guns that GW insists on using (1/35 guns on 1/50 models) and b)the new policy they use on some models to make them limited in build options. The latter essentially takes an expensive character model and makes it into the type of figure you see with their starter set while maintaining a pricepoint of a boutique style resin hero.. which it aint..
GW’s quality has improved in comparison to their own figures.. but price/quality they are not industry leaders IMO like they were for so long. Their are plenty of other companies making cheaper, higher quality sculpts.. Now.. not all of them are covered in skulls and incense burners.. but for me that’s a good thing.
GW stopped producing new finecast models, so it isn’t very surprising that few people have seen a recent one. 🙂
As for PP, the last one I had in hand and worked on was a couple of months ago (a light Vector from the Cyriss starter). The last one I got to pull out of a box and look at was the new heavy vector kit. Seems that I can’t bring myself to give up on them, so I keep checking their kits in the hope that the improvements they’ve repeatedly promised will eventually show…
GW models are definitely not to everyone’s taste, but as far as sculpting/engineering of quality plastic miniatures go, I honestly can’t think of anybody ahead of them. Wyrd is making very good pieces, but they are still very new to the plastic game (thank god for their move to plastic though, their sculpts were getting worse and worse). I feel that everybody else either lags behind or chooses the cheap route.
they wont stop doing it unless gamers stop buying it