Comments on: TGN Chat: 40K 5th edition

By: Aulbath

Aulbath — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:01:47 +0000

Well, I dunno… all I know is, if it’s the full rulebook + generic marines, I’ll be getting it once it’s out - if not, I stay 2nd Ed (well, I will stay 2nd Ed. anyway, but I might play 5th too) and will save my money for Chaos mortals in Fantasy (which is currently the happening I am most looking forward too… no more shittsy demons and crap… just plain norse power! Wheee!)

By: evernevermore (John)

evernevermore (John) — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 17:37:39 +0000

For the record - the photos on Bell of Lost Souls of the Battle for Black Reach marines DO NOT show any molded on Ultramarines symbols. The rule book for BBR has not been confirmed as a stripped down book

By: djgustav

djgustav — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:50:20 +0000

I think the latest is that it is a full mini rulebook like maccrage and skull pass. If the price point is as good as indicated, I will at least go halfers with someone on the box set.

Ah, who am I kidding, within a year I will have the box set and the large rulebook. I know half of you will as well. I will just open my wallet now…!

By: Aulbath

Aulbath — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 15:53:31 +0000

I was almost sold when I heard the following things; shiny new rulebook with a shitload of new illustrations, different perspective (now from the various races), lots of fun minis & stuff in the starter… but the latest rumors that surfaced made me consider against buying it once it’s out.

Mainly specific Ultra Marine models and incomplete rulebook… and uncomfortable, big price, full rulebook - handy rules section from Macragge was a great idea.
The Space Wolves codex is the release that decides wether I’ll go for 40K 5th or maybe pick it up some time later (if I feel bored or like shelling out cash), or maybe never…

I do have to admit the stuff they write up on Bell of Lost Souls sounds fun and different.

By: evernevermore (John)

evernevermore (John) — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 15:37:55 +0000

If your sure you want to do that Zac I will give you a proverbial smack up side the head to remind you.

@ Audbath - I think Escher is a special case, though there are a suprising number of older female IG figures, I have a couple though I have not been able to get my hands on the Catachan Female Grenade launcer fig. Whats really odd is the lack of female IG figs, since fluff says the Imperial Guard is an equal oppurtunity way to get killed, maimed or eaten.

By: Zac

Zac — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 15:22:04 +0000

We can open the can of worms in another topic perhaps.

Maybe next week someone can email me to remind me to post a chat topic about that?

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:20:18 +0000

djgustav - I believe that I made it clear it was my opinion that GW products carry bigoted undertones. I won’t get caught up in arguing why. Doing so would derail the discussion and break the code of conduct. We will just have to agree that we disagree.

Zac - I apologize as well. It really is one of the major reasons I dont buy GW anymore and is a serious reason for me at that. But I realize its opening a can of worms that I hope can be closed quickly.

I look forward to hearing everyone else’s response. Great feedback so far, with a lot of very different answers and reasons.

By: Aulbath

Aulbath — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:27:00 +0000

@grendal: It’s not really like GW couldn’t pull of proper cool females, just think House Escher of Necromunda fame. A favourite among many punk/goth/metal-gurls in my place ;)

By: Zac

Zac — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 04:24:21 +0000

No problem mentioning it, the rest of us just don’t need to get sidetracked chatting about it though :-)

By: grendal

grendal — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 04:16:53 +0000

sorry to get it semi off topic zac, but the reasons I mentioned are why I will be putting my money into other minis games.

By: Zac

Zac — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 04:08:20 +0000

Let me just smack myself on the knuckles first for jumping in on the “sexism” tangent.

Lets please try to keep the chat focused on the game itself and the upcoming 5th edition

Thanks

By: djgustav

djgustav — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 03:57:36 +0000

1) Yep, I will no doubt b getting 5th edition–it is the game to play around here.
2) Yep, there is “male orientation” going on here, like in video games where women are busty (and men all look like Conan); more nerd fantasy than misogyny by most people’s gauge; look at some of the adds for stunning non GW minis on this site and you will see far more suggestive and possibly derogatory stuff
3) Bigotry? Really?! I thought it was just toy soldiers. GW is not, cannot be responsible for all the horrors of the world. They make toy soldiers (reasonably well, at fairly steep cost) and eat bacon sandwiches with their tea. I play their games, and those of other games companies who likely also drink tea and I have never felt they were secretly turning me into a fascist or racist. If I play WWII Russians it doesn’t make me Pro Communist dictators any more than playing cold heartless egyptian derivative necrons makes me any more, um, robotically necronish. These are ultimately toys. Apply labels cautiously.

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 02:56:48 +0000

I think the issue isnt that there arent enough female models in 40k. There are quite a few. But with the exception of the relatively recent addition of females mixed into the eldar/elf lines, woman are usually portrayed in a rather sexist fashion.

Sure, Sisters of Battle are mostly women, but they are represented as an S and M fantasy version of women warriors. Likewise with those that appear in Slannesh armies. The overall impression that the 40k universe leaves in a lot of people is that women are weaker than men and cannot serve in a viable manner in war without using their sexuality.

Though the fluff of 40k appealed to me as a pre-teen, I now feel it is rather immature and a throw back to the early days of sci-fi where the women wore miniskirts and the aliens were always a thinly veiled racial stereotype.

I hate to run down this line of thought, but it is relevant to the question at hand for me. There are two reasons I wont be buying any more 40k. One is the deplorable rules that make my head spin trying to figure out their reasoning. The other is the undercurrent of bigotry I feel is present in all things GW.

So I wont be picking this up, no matter how they package it.

By: grendal

grendal — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 01:37:50 +0000

“Given that it is written by a bunch of “gamer lads” I wouldn’t be surprised if it was filled with stuff that your average woman would be put off by :-)”

an excellant way of putting it !

By: Zac

Zac — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 01:35:09 +0000

Well if the material is sexist in some fashion (not saying it is or isn’t) then the number of female gamers isn’t relevant.

Given that it is written by a bunch of “gamer lads” I wouldn’t be surprised if it was filled with stuff that your average woman would be put off by :-)