What I was getting at is that I want the design goals of a game to be to produce a great game. I don’t want sales or marketing issues to impact game design in the things I play. At the very least, it should be nigh undetectable to the player.

I have this idea that games should be sold and marketed on their merits as games rather than be a sales and marketing tool in of themselves.

They’re not a game design company.

Then they shouldn’t sell their rules.

This is one thing that GW says about themselves that is totally wrong. They make a lot of money on their games and they need to focus on them or farm out rule development to people that will take it seriously.

It’s just so completely arbitrary it makes no sense.

I shouldn’t really have higher expectations though when it comes to GW. They’re not a game design company. They’re a model selling company. The purpose of their games is not necessarily to be a good game but to be a good sales tool.

As much as I love 40k’s imagery and background, more and more I’m finding I have no interest in GW’s sales tools that they pass of as game rules, codex updates, new editions, etc.,.

Will I be picking up a copy to play the game? I voted no. Will I wait until a bunch of the boxes are broken up and being sold off on eBay to get a bunch of cool models for cheap to use with better rules?

Definitely.

personally I LOVE this - but then I don’t have an army that does not have 4 troop choices..

I think if the “leaked” pdf holds up 40k will be a much worse game. For example, troops are the only scoring unit. So if you’ve got a squad of marines from the 1st company. A veteran squad of the best of the best, they suddenly can’t hold a building. I guess they forgot how. After all, elite is worse right?

The leaked pdf is full of arbitrary and stupid things like that.

You are spot on, the last original rules that GW bought out was Space Hulk. As for 40K I loved Rogue Trader, hated 2nd edition (yuk, too many cards).

3rd was limp but better than 2nd, but had some nice add on`s but 4th just killed it for me. I played it a few times and was very disappointed every time.

Thats when I cranked up Ebay (before it got too bad), and tracked down Rogue Trader and the supplement books and also Space Hulk and several old versions of Warhammer, including 1st edition.

The retro stuff, is just better than the tasteless mush that is being put out by GW today.

In fact the two most modern game sets I play now are Hammers Slammers and the odd game of 5150.

SW

What perplexes me is how little new product actually comes out of GW every year. They’re become a lot like an american auto manufacturer in a lot of ways. Struggling to put out new product, bring in new customers, and keep old, all while facing a rapidly improving and dynamic competition.

For me Page 5 is all about brining your best to the table and doing your best. If you lose you did your best. I never got the vibe that page 5 is a license to be a poor winner. Then again it’s a document just like our laws is subject to a person’s interpretation.

Don’t get me wrong…I’m not trashing 40k. I’ve been playing it since ‘91. It’s a great starter game and I love the background. It’s just not deep enough for me to play on a regular basis anymore.