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    First Rackham Legends miniature on pre-order

    Rackham have posted photos and starting taking pre-orders for their first Rackham Legends miniature, Belial.

    Belial
    Click to enlarge

    From their announcement:

    Last week we presented the new Rackham Legends range. A range that will offer painters and hobbyist exclusive limited edition miniatures that require assembling and painting! Time has come to unveil the first reference of the range: Belial

    Pre-orders for this miniature are already possible on the Rackham-Store. Limited to 600 casts, it comes with two possible heads and two possible weapons. Belial is an impressive both in scale and detail. He will be first released as part of the Rackham Legends® range. He will later be available painted and assembled along with the Houses of Acheron.

    Belial´s characteristics are available on the official Confrontation forum.

    35 Responses to “First Rackham Legends miniature on pre-order”


    cegorach says:

    Umm 60 Euros? I hope it is either 3 feet tall or makes your breakfast for you otherwise it looks like you are being charged 2x-3x the price for the same thing you were buying six months back. Very nice mini indeed but unless it’s huge, that price is scary.


    Zac says:

    Well it is a limited edition figure. The overhead costs for the mini are being spread over a smaller number of casts and so the price is higher.


    mathieu says:

    otherwise it looks like you are being charged 2x-3x the price for the same thing you were buying six months back

    2x perhaps, 3x definitely not. I agree though. It’s an interesting looking model, I like how it comes with an alternate head and weapon, and it’s a pretty big piece… But it’s not 60€ big or impressive as far as my tastes and my wallet are concerned.

    Luckily the same exact model will come in plastic as well (as stated by Jean Bey). So people in love with the sculpt may still get it for (hopefully) a lot less money. Which is a nice gesture from Rackham to satisfy fans of their finely crafted models. The single master for both medium surprises me though.


    cegorach says:

    I’m not commenting on the choice to go LE, only that it seems to be a massive price hike over what would be essentially the same product type in a short period of time. Hopefully there will be people with that much money to splash but even so it is a dramatic increase. Mind you, if R are smart they will follow another company’s lead and give it game winning stats :)


    KillMeForPrizes says:

    60 euro is a lot but as can be seen in this image its quite large (and its resin):

    http://www.rackham-store.com/site/medias/Belial-4-PT.jpg

    There will be a pre-painted plastic version available at a later date, which I assume will be cheaper.

    Bloody great looking model.


    Zac says:

    I’m not commenting on the choice to go LE, only that it seems to be a massive price hike over what would be essentially the same product type in a short period of time

    But it isn’t the same sort of product. This is going to be cast a lot fewer times than a regular release and so the price will be higher.


    cegorach says:

    Zac, I mean from a consumer’s perspective. You are paying X dollars for a model that is Y size and Z quality. So in other words, assuming R hadn’t gone through all its issues and was trading as it was a year or more ago, you would not have paid the same money for this product. Making it limited edition doesn’t change the quality of the sculpt, the size or any other form of end-user reception. R decided to change their molding process for their own business issues and are slugging consumers with an increased price for an equivalent model as a result. It’s being cast fewer times due to their own business re-org - it’s not as if it is a quantum leap above its previous models and as a result is an expensive LE as other companies do. It’s not limited edition because it is super quality, or even super size, compared to other previous company offerings. That is the most common justification for expensive LE. It’s LE because R retooled their business model.


    Zac says:

    So in other words, assuming R hadn’t gone through all its issues and was trading as it was a year or more ago, you would not have paid the same money for this product

    I think that you’re making assumptions that don’t have any bearing on the product.


    gavroche says:

    It’s a very nice mini imo. But expensive too, for what it is. So I’ll wait for the plastic version & repaint that ;-)

    How cheap of me.


    mathieu says:

    This is going to be cast a lot fewer times than a regular release and so the price will be higher.

    I’m not so sure this is true for resin cast models though. I don’t have extensive knowledge on the matter, but I was under the impression that the relatively low overhead costs were one of the reasons to choose resin for small productions. In comparison, the Giant or the Tree woman from Ultra forge seem to be 50% larger at the very least and go for $75. I doubt the FFG price will be much cheaper (if at all) when they get Belial on this side of the pond.


    Manumilitari says:

    Mathieu is right.
    in fact the silicon mold used for resin can cast a limited number of miniature before being to damaged.
    Every 30 miniature they have to make a new mold (maybe more or less depending if they are touchy ou not for the quality of the last casts).
    So unless the mini is limited UNDER 20, they should not have extra expenses.
    That is precisely why resin is the best choice for limited editions.
    (all this is based on my indirect experience with 2 different professional of resin cast, so I may be wrong and it may differ with theyr own production method)


    cegorach says:

    Zac, again you seem to be getting more defensive about R than is necessary. I am saying that as a consumer, I question paying top dollar for a product when the equivalent product was available for considerably less a short space of time ago. This is not a limited edition because it is ’special’ - I have never before seen a high priced LE expected to sell unless it is either uniquely sculpted or extremely large/unusual.

    Consumers can still log on to the webstore and see huge monsters like Shurat, made of metal and of the exact same quality, for 75% of the price.

    Take the Titan Dragon for example - it is massive and extremely unusual. It’s a showpiece and while many people question the price, it is clearly a limited and unusual figure.

    Belial just does not seem to be that same level of separation from the majority of Conf heroes and monsters you can still get for the same size and quality but a lot cheaper.

    So I am asking what makes this so different to justify the price inflation?

    I am honestly curious, not having a go. Maybe there is something I am missing?


    Sisyphus says:

    Well, if you do the GW thing and price also according to position in the game, Belial is a titan which is like a demi-god you might say. He’s also the cheapest titan I think. At 60 Euro I think it’s somewhat overpriced, but how much is that due to the weed called the US dollar? In Euro thinking, 45 to 50 would be about right. And charge an extra for the legendary-ness and whammo!

    I’m gonna get whacked like a mole for supporting R this time. It’s about the first time in many long months.


    evernevermore (John) says:

    Lets try looking at this logically.

    1. How big is he? I mean that looks like a base on par with a GW Dreadnought base to me.

    2. If I remember my conversions properly I would have expected a figure that size to clock in at about 50 euros - so I would guess 10 more for it being limited edition

    3. cegorach - since this is just type and we dont have any other cues you are coming across as having an axe to grind - not saying you do its just how it reads to me, so ease up please

    4. I wonder what the pose for the second weapon will be - if they need to create an extra set of arms for a different pose I could see it being a bit more expensive then a single cast. While resin is cheaper then metal for casting when you start adding options and additional pieces to the mold the cost starts climbing. Maybe Rackham spent too much time sawing him up and is selling a model kit rather then a mini.

    thats my two bent coppers


    Veritas says:

    The other thing you need to take into consideration is that R has stated several times that the prices for their metal models were outdated and would have needed a severe price hike to keep making a profit off of them. It’s just the way the business world goes.

    And I think the comparisson to Ultraforge is a bad one. For Rackham their models have to pay for a full staff of people. Ultraforge is, if I remember correctly, like one guy and his girlfriend working out of their house. The two are entirely different businesses even though they produce the same things.


    Zac says:

    Comments about anyone’s state of mind or motives aren’t appropriate. Lets avoid them please. And lets also please avoid making direct requests of people or appearing to be making requests of them to change their tone.

    Thats my job :-) Just talk about the subject and leave the other comments out of the discussion

    Thanks


    Zac says:

    Price discussions are really problematic and I’ve yet to see one that ever satisfied anyone.

    There are any number of differences between companies, products and even different models in the same range that people can point to as a reason for or against a price difference. Ultimately these discussions never lead anywhere positive.

    And Veritas is correct, Ultraforge is two people who clearly don’t have the overhead that Rackham does and they also don’t cast the same number of figs as Rackham will even for this Legends limited release.


    gavroche says:

    Price discussions may be “problematic”, but they’re also essential to a decent consumer forum. So some people think it’s overpriced? Let them! I’m sure others won’t mind, or Forgeworld & GW would’ve gone out of business a long time ago.


    Zac says:

    Price discussions may be “problematic”, but they’re also essential to a decent consumer forum

    Which this isn’t :-)

    Edit: By which I mean that I think of places like the Rackham firms as being a consumer forum.

    So some people think it’s overpriced?

    That is the actual core to my issue with them. Someone thinks they are too expensive, others don’t. It doesn’t really provide any sort of interesting commentary other than the poster’s state of mind.

    These things lead to flames far more often than they lead to any sort of interesting debate


    Marauder says:

    I think its unfortunate that Rackham seems to have gone out of their way to provide a high quality (resin as opposed to their new plastics) unpainted mini, for those that were the big fans of their metal line, that seems to be out of most peoples price range. I hope this doesn’t end up being a “failed experiment” and R scrapping future plans for more projects similar to this.

    -Tim


    RyanGSG says:

    I would also like to bring up the state of Rackham as a company and what goes into the price of this miniature. Sadly though I get angry when I do cause I can see most sides of the argument. So I’m not going to I’m going to talk about the miniature.
    Right now though I have to say that model is Awesome looking! Its roughly the size of a Greater Daemon. Thank you to KillmeforPrizes for the comparison photo. With the option to swap parts it make it better and opens it up for conversion nuts like myself. I love the detail on the piece and I think this is definitely a good sign of things to come from their studio. I look forward to getting one and crushing my opponent’s army.

    -Ryan
    Snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory since 1992;P


    Zac says:

    I hope this doesn’t end up being a “failed experiment” and R scrapping future plans for more projects similar to this.

    I think Rackham could have managed people’s expectation better. And if the Legends line will carry these sort of LE figs as well as the old metals then maybe they should have come out with a separate brand for the resin LE figures so people then don’t equate the Legends brand with more expensive LE resin figures.


    oldsalt says:

    Just talk about the subject and leave the other comments out of the discussion

    Aww Zac!
    But sometimes you know I like just going to comments section on rackham models just to see what the angry ex-confrontation players will find to flame about now.

    In this instance I think Rackham could have made the size of the model clearer (It’s quite a bit larger than you’d think) and done a better job highlighting the level of the detail (i.e. the little chaosish screaming faces are poking out of its skin all over the place.
    -
    While the it’s not my taste (too chaos-ish) for that Size and Level of detail- it seems about 60 euros worth. Heck I wouldn’t expect the model to be under 45 for the production run (where the detail won’t be as crisp)
    -
    Sadly of course here in america 60 euro is crazy talk… as the dollar continues to plummet… but that’s GWB’s fault not Rackham’s


    oldsalt says:

    whoops wrong tag


    Zac says:

    60 Euros is indeed a ton of money and for people in the US that may make it unreasonably expensive


    Marauder says:

    Well, he is what almost 1700pts! You won’t need too much more army to go along with that!

    -Tim


    Zac says:

    1687 IIRC. So that is one huge pile of points.


    Trent McCaffrey says:

    How ’bout an apples-to-apples comparison guys?

    Forgeworld Eldar Avatar

    Belial (Extra large photo comparison from Cry Havoc Online)

    Price? The same!


    Zac says:

    By which he means that £45.00 is roughly equivalent to €60.00 (about €58 at the current exchange rates)


    Zac says:

    Does anyone know if the Avatar has head and weapon swaps?


    mathieu says:

    I think they would explicitly mention it on the FW site :)


    Zac says:

    Good point


    evernevermore (John) says:

    They have two different models for the Avatar - sword and spear equipped. Dont think they are swappable though


    mathieu says:

    Now you need to pick the head+weapon you want when you order Belial. It doesn’t come with both of each and you can’t pick head 1 with weapon 2, for example.


    evernevermore (John) says:

    So now its exactly like Forgeworld - so is this R’s idea of a forgeworld division?


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