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    • Ask TGN: Choosing a brand of acrylic paints

    Ask TGN

    Reader Patrice asks:

    I’m in the process of buying myself a complete set of new acrylics paints. I started long ago with GW paints and achieved some good results with them. I then switched to oils (Winsor & Newton) and achieved even better results with those but the problem is that they take a long time to dry and you have to be very patient.

    So I want to, in parallel of my oil painting, start again using acrylics. I’m hesitating between the Vallejo and the P3 range from Privateer Press? What would be the guidelines to choose between one or the other?

    This entry was posted on Friday, January 25th, 2008 and is filed under Ask TGN.

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    27 Responses to “Ask TGN: Choosing a brand of acrylic paints”


    Darkson says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Both are good paint lines and both offer a wide variety of different colors from each other. The best thing to do is pick up a few colors from each line and play with them to get a feel for them. I personally use both and have no issues jumping between the two lines. Try to get color swatches from the different Vallejo lines(Now 4 full lines Model Color, Game Color, Model Air, and a brand new line Panzer Aces). With these color guides you can best pick the colors you want to try playing with.

    Vallejo info can be found here: http://r-kproductions.com/
    R&K is the company that brought Vallejo into the states over 10 years ago.
    Zac says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Rob is also the fellow that runs R&K and so he has quite a bit of experience with the Vallejo range.

    I also use paints from both ranges. I’m not a fan of the Game Colour range as I find them too thin.

    Both ranges really focus on different types of colours. The P3 paints are intended for fantasy and game painting while quite a bit of the Vallejo range is military colours.

    So it may depend on what sort of figures you want to paint. My AE-WII/Weird War minis are all done with Vallejo paints but my sci-fi and fantasy figs use paints from the P3 and Vallejo ranges.

    What sort of minis are you going to be painting?
    Keirof says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    First, I don’t think Vallejo necessarily have to be one of a post-GW either/or choice, I actually gave all my Vallejo Model Color away (maybe 40 pots) as I had very little success painting with them The issue for me was two fold. First, they had what I considered poor coverage. I’m not interested in putting down 15-20 applications of paint to build up my coverage. I realize that people get very good results doing this but I’m over 40 and have only limited time to paint (in both ways). Second, I don’t think their colours are that arresting, interesting, attractive.

    If you want a range, at least check out the Reaper Master Series paint range. Great coverage, interesting colours for the most part, and the triad approach is very effective. Marike Reimer uses these colours. So do many other top rank painters. They also have certain products that are winners no matter what range you choose. The Clear Bright colours they have are amazingly effective. Their off-whites (linen White, Leather White and Ghost White) are excellent. Their Brush On sealer and their liners (the Brown especially) are very good.

    But leaving aside that, the whole range approach is perhaps not to your best advantage. There are other ways to look at it. GW has the best metallics. Why not use them? The best flesh tones have to be from P3. P3’s reds are difficult to surpass. And their are some colours in the new GW Foundation range, particularly the red, the yellows and the light green, that are truly excellent. I use a lot of Derivans as well. And there are 3-4 Delta Ceramcoat paints that are must haves.

    Good luck!
    mathieu says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    As Darkson stated, “Vallejo” now means 4 complete lines of paints. I wouldn’t recommend using the Model Color and Game Color ranges (VMC and VGC, resp.), the lightfastness is now proving sub par on some of the miniatures I painted years ago. I’ve also found the paints to have a fairly low resistance to rubbing, but to be honest I can’t compare it to any other paints out there as I’ve almost systematically added a strong acrylic medium to all my paints since.
    I’ve only heard good things about the Model Air line (particularly the metallic paints), even from other people who didn’t appreciate the VMC and VGC ranges, but I haven’t had a chance to try it first hand.

    On the positive side, the range of (mostly military) colors is mind boggling, the eyedropper is the best dispensing bottle I’ve used (some hate it though), and the paints have a nice, mate finish.

    As for P3, as I said I can’t really discuss the resistance of the paints since I’m adding another acrylic medium anyway. I haven’t used it long enough to evaluate the lightfastness either (unless you have a constant light exposure, it takes years to show weaknesses here).
    To me the most interesting feature of the P3 range is their use of “liquid pigments”. I don’t know what that actually means, but the bottom line is you can dilute your paint as much as you want, the pigments will not separate. That is extremely rare to have that across a range, even among artist paint ranges, and their white is the only one I’ve used that doesn’t get chalky when you water it down.

    On the other hand, it seems that their metallic colors are not on par with the rest of the range.

    Finally, I completely agree with Keirof, I wouldn’t suggest getting one full range and sticking to it. I don’t believe any of them is perfect (or even just consistently good) throughout the range, you can only benefit from picking from different manufacturers :)
    Zac says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Liquid pigment means exactly what it says. The pigment is not a solid as it is in many paint ranges so when the paint is thinned it doesn’t break down.
    TMK says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    I’ve hear good things about Reaper, but I haven’t tried them. Vallejo makes decent paints, but I can’t stand the dropper bottles; many of the paints are thin I end dumping out way more then I need. If you’re a fan of GW colors, the game colors are a perfect match and you get more for your money.

    I would recommend you go with what you know and replenish your set of GW, it’s still some of the best.

    I guarantee that none of the acrylics are going to work as well as your oils. You will, however, not have to deal with drying time, odor, and toxicity.
    evernevermore says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I use a mix of GW and Vallejo and Im still trying out a couple colors of P3. Picking one line will just hamstring you, as the major lines all have thier own specialties.
    Doc says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    as the major lines all have thier own specialties.
    I agree - after almost 20yrs of painting with acrylic (ye gods…) GW still has the best metallic paints.
    mikesilk says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    if you want quick results use the new GW Foundation line…limited colour range but excellent coverage.
    if time is not a factor the vallejo ranges, both model and game are excellent, they are both available in a 72 colour suitcase which is an ideal starter…the game colour range has an identical colour palette to that of GWs’ line of Citadel Colour but in my opinion is far superior in that they are a thin paint which allows for much better colour transitions. The Reaper Master Series are also excellent paints on par with GW but in a better paint pot…they are a dropper style like Vallejos’ . I have yet to try the P3 paints as there is nowhere to buy them here in Victoria. A couple of must haves Vallejos Model Colour-SMOKE , Reapers Masterclass liners- grey, brown, and blue. and i will agree with Doc that GW has the best acryllic metallics but if you can get them Vallejos’ alcohol based metallics are the cats ass. Hope this does not add to the confusion. M
    nanite says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    I use a pathetic mix of cheap craft paints (Delta, Folk Art), Reaper Pro Paints (nice metallics), Reaper MSP’s (fantastic paints, can’t afford to buy them all), and GW Foundation paints for base coats.

    I’m completely hooked on the GW Foundation Yellow (I-Something Darksun?), it covers in one coat, then it’s simple to build up to brighter yellow. Only yellow paint I know that can do this withoput losing much detail, if any.

    I really do love the Reaper Master Series paints. Each bottle includes a shaker, so you can get them up and flowing quickly even if you haven’t used a color in a while. Vallejo tend to separate quickly, and have to be shaken for what feels like a long time. The MSP’s are very smooth and cover really well.

    I really dislike the P3 paints. Thin, poor coverage, they dry very glossy, and the consistency is poor. The Inks are especially watery, and off color. I may have just gotten some bad bottles though.
    Darkson says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    It’s very interesting to see how different the feeling is from paint line to paint line. One person feels that paint X is to thin while another person feel that the same paint is too thick. It all comes down to picking up a few colors you would like to replace and have at it. Each paint line has it’s strong points and weak points, but in the end you have to find out with the hands on experience. Not one line can ever make all painters happy. Mrs. Vallejo told me that “painters should not use just one brand of paint.” Play with em and feel how they react to your style. Hopefully your LGS has a few of the brands in stock and will let you try them out in shop.
    mrgunn says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    I have used GW, Reaper MSPs, Vallejo Game Color, and P3 paints. I have found GW paints to be generally ok. However they can sometimes be “chalky” and with the pigment having an undissolved characteristic I find annoying. I have not used the Foundation paints, but I will be picking some up in the near futuer. The plus side of GW paints is you can purchase them from almost anywhere.

    I like the Reaper Master Series paints but I have found them to be inconsistent in terms of quality. They mix well, and have a large selection of colors. One thing I do not like is the eye dropper bottles, the paints seem to dry out more quickly and clog. I do like the Reaper metallics they flow much more smoothly than others that I have used.

    Vallejo Game Color paints are about the same as the Reaper MSP paints in terms of features. Vallejo smoke tint is a must have. I have actually used the alcohol based Vellejo metallics, but they have very limited application because your model must be dry as they will curdle if your model is damp.

    I have just started using the P3 paints, the storage bottles are great like the current GW lids but even better. The color set is a bit odd, we can blame Mike McVey ;). They are very very smoth and water down extremely well. However they appear to dry with a satin/shiny/rubbery finish which I am not sure I like. They also do not seem to mix well with other paint lines, GW, Reaper MSPs.

    My overall advice is to purchase some paints from several different lines and experiment. When you are satisfied you have found what you are looking for buy more.

    Regards,

    mRgUnN
    Zac says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    It’s very interesting to see how different the feeling is from paint line to paint line. One person feels that paint X is to thin while another person feel that the same paint is too thick.

    I actually only think that the Vallejo Game Colour range is thin. I think the VMC range is quite nice and I have tons of them around.

    Part of it might be how one paints. I always thin out my paints and use multiple layers so anything meant ot be used without thinning is going to come across as too thin.

    The GW foundation paints are nice but they are specifically meant to be used as dark base coats so they aren’t really good all around paints.

    Vallejo also do make a heck of a great range of washes as well

    And lets not forget the Coat D’Arms paints that Black Hat Miniatures also sell. The “original” GW paint and washes IIRC.
    Muteki says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    I’ve been using P3 a lot lately. I have to say I don’t like the finish that much so I go the extra step by either dull coating AFTER the basecoat is down, then highlight up or by simply adding matte medium (Tamiya’s is insanely flat, Vallejo’s is good, Liquitex too) to remove the satin finish.

    VMC I have had mixed results with. The coverage is great and the choice of colour is immense too and I definitely have a number of favourites from the VMC range, but they really require a lot of shaking and they often separate on the palette (especially when thinned down). I almost paint in glazes (or juices as referred to by some) and this can be a problem. I wouldn’t recommend VMC for gamers either, they rub off pretty easily. However, hobbyist that paint miniatures for display and to higher standards often swear by VMC (TH, Cheeba, etc)

    GW, for me, are the best all-round paints. Their metallics are excellent and their finish is always smooth. The new foundation paints are good for just that; laying a foundation or base layer. The red is really handy, as are the browns for laying an under layer for lighter colours such a bleached bone etc.

    I think all-in-all, it’s best to have a selection from each. I have a number of go to colours from each range. It generally comes with experience.

    One final note, use cheap craft paints for terrain and game board building… I use Delta.
    Demise says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Has anyone some experience with the foundry paint system. I always thought the matching color sets were quite a good idea, but i never had the time to test them.
    Jim Bailey says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    Interesting question. I have never painted minis with oils. Knowing how oils respond to canvas I’d probably say that the P3 line is your best bet from a purely “how the paint performs” standpoint from among the hobby model ranges. Straight out of the bottle it has a longer working time so you can wet blend without additives if that is your gig. If you are looking for a general acrylic solution then your experience with oils might lead you to Windsor and Newton or the less expensive but dear to my heart Liquitex that I began painting leather jackets with for me and all my punk buddies back in the early eighties.

    A few thoughts on paint ranges in general:

    I have a couple of hundred paint pots at my paint station at any given time and more in the drawers below. I have a wide range of Reaper, Games Workshop, Valejo of various flavors, and P3. I use them all interchangeably depending on what color I’m trying to acheive. I have a few standards that I have matched and mixed up in quarts of high quality house paint. If you’re looking for some seriously good paint, Behr Premium and Sherwin Williams Super Paint are the bomb. Nice and thick but thin well.

    All ranges have their ups and downs, good colors, bad colors, too-thin paints, too thick paints, too grainy paints, etc. As many obviously experienced painters in this thread have said, there is no silver bullet.

    Hope this helps.

    Jim
    Kenneth says:
    January 25th, 2008 at 9:13 pm

    VMCs are great for models, but even when using their thinners, doing good prep and priming work, and using good varnishes they tend to be fragile for gaming purposes. Another good thing about them is the wide range of colours… never have to try and match a custom blend again! Well… almost never. ;)

    You also need to learn a few tricks to keep some coloursfrom separating on the palette, such as giving them a swish with a toothpick before loading the brush (yes, each time) and how to mix them quickly (slap the bottom sharply and rapidly against the palm of you off hand for 5 - 10 seconds), and how to avoid paint explosions (clean the tip of the blocked bottle with a cocktail toothpick instead of squeezing it hard enough for the paint to explode out of the tip).

    But… if you’re a gamer you want a hard durable finish… unless you like doing touch ups… and should look elsewhere first.
    Darkson says:
    January 26th, 2008 at 12:10 am

    But… if you’re a gamer you want a hard durable finish… unless you like doing touch ups… and should look elsewhere first.

    GAME COLOR
    This compact range has been especially developed to contain all the frequently used colors in fantasy figures. The formula was particularly designed for adherence on plastic and metal, using a new resin of unequalled durability and resistance to scrapes and abrasions.

    Colors brush on easily and smoothly, and dry to an opaque, matte finish. Their finely ground texture makes them perfect for the most miniature details as well as for large surfaces. They are highly pigmented, light fast and waterproof once dry.

    Game color is manufactured in accordance with ECC normatives, and is not flammable nor toxic in normal use.
    Black Hat Miniatures says:
    January 26th, 2008 at 3:25 am

    If you like the Games Workshop paints, especially the Metallics and Washes, then consider looking at Coat D’arms paints.

    The Fantasy range are the same colours that GW used to sell in hexagonal pots, and all our range are based on the old GW formula.

    We are just a lot cheaper!

    see

    http://www.blackhat.co.uk/catalog

    for details.

    NB Black Hat Miniatures is the distributor for Coat D’arms paints (to declare an interest!)
    Psychotic Storm says:
    January 26th, 2008 at 3:51 am

    To be honest I have yet to see the fragility of VMC you mention.
    mathieu says:
    January 26th, 2008 at 7:34 am

    GAME COLOR

    Apologies if I’m wrong, but it sounds like an official statement from Vallejo, right? I’m actually curious to know if anyone actually experienced the improved adherence mentioned. As far as I could tell when I tried it, the VGC wasn’t noticeably stronger than the VMC, which was a little bit of a disappointment to me… Then again that was years ago when they just released the VGC, there might have been some flaws, or I might have ended up with defective pots.
    Psychotic Storm says:
    January 26th, 2008 at 8:01 am

    I haven’t tried VGC to be honest, but newer VMC colors seem to be of superior quality to some older ones I have.
    Kenneth says:
    January 26th, 2008 at 8:27 am

    mathieu said re. VMC:

    “I’ve also found the paints to have a fairly low resistance to rubbing, but to be honest I can’t compare it to any other paints out there as I’ve almost systematically added a strong acrylic medium to all my paints since.”

    Sounds great mathieu. The VMC mediums help alot, but in my experience gamers wanting durability need something tougher. What exactly are you using anyway? :) I want to go out to my corner art supply store and snag some!
    mathieu says:
    January 26th, 2008 at 8:52 am

    I use mate medium from Pebeo, but I assume any serious artist brand has good stuff in that department. The increase of resistance is significant, I usually don’t even need to varnish my minis any longer (except for protruding sharp or pointy bits).
    estrus says:
    January 26th, 2008 at 11:50 am

    Alot of good info here… thanks everyone!
    Kenneth says:
    January 26th, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    Sounds good. Picked up some GAC 200 medium by Golden and will try that out.
    imkal says:
    January 28th, 2008 at 3:57 am

    Hi All,

    Thanks a lot for all these interesting answers.

    I will follow the advice of not buying a full set and will try out of your answers to find out a good set to start with among the different range you are naming.

    I’m not a gamer and i’m painting for collection purpose. I’ll keep you posted on my choices.

    Thanks for sharing your experience.

    Patrice

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