Confrontation previews
Rackham have sent along some previews of upcoming Griffin and, if I am not mistaken, Dirz miniatures for Confrontation. No word on when we should expect these to be released.
Click to enlarge
Search TGN
News this week
Categories
TGN Articles
- Painting Matters
- Gaming in plastic
- Interviews
- Editorials
- Photography
- Category Browser
- 2008 Reader's Choice Awards
- 2008 Editor's Choice Awards
TGN links
Recent Posts
- Mammoth Strider upgrade pack coming soon from DP9
- MaxMini.eu server problems
- Mississinewa Miniatures release Sergeant Grimey Garry and the cops
- Escenografía Epsilon release first Zenit series bases
- Figures in Comfort New Year Review
- Micropanzer Wargame Studio posts first miniature releases
- Figures in Comfort 5 Year Guarantee
- Spartan Games post new Gallery images
- Crocodile release Emperor Augustus FitzPatricus
- New Crusader releases
Recent Comments
- Hordes April 2009 previews
elmiranda : January 6, 2009 - Hordes April 2009 previews
Marauder : January 6, 2009 - 2008 Year in Review
Aulbath : January 3, 2009 - Hordes April 2009 previews
Trent McCaffrey : January 6, 2009 - Eureka release 15mm 1805-11 Russians in greatcoats
Erik Engling : January 3, 2009 - Baccus Napoleonic British to be replaced
Erik Engling : January 5, 2009 - 2008 Year in Review
Erik Engling : January 3, 2009 - 2008 Year in Review
Osbad : January 3, 2009 - New Reaper releases
noraneko : January 5, 2009 - Shiva the Destroyer concept art and preview
tinman_xl : January 5, 2009
View more comments
Donate
PayPal donations to help TGN run are always welcome and appreciated.
All content and graphics ©2005-2009 by Zac Belado.
All logos and trademarks used on this site are the copyright and property of their respective owner(s).
Those look pretty cool.
Looking forward to seeing how well they turn out once in plastic.
Well I am happy to see that the Dirz appear to be the next army. Griffin and Dirz are my two favourite factions.
Are those resin or plastic? They look like plastic to me.
They look like plastic to me as well. Rackham wasn’t specific about the nature of the figures.
that ladt (pic 2) would be a buy at first glance for me.
Why did they go prepainted plastic? why?
Whoa, I’m impressed…
If it’s unpainted, it’s resin. Plastic has color molded in, and can’t be produced in small quantities. These are undoubtedly resin (with a greyish basecoat).
They look like masters from a NICE rapid prototype machine. Very clean.
jp
Looks like Arkhos, Mira, Melkion and possibly Ysis, reloaded. Neat stuff!
Why did they go prepainted plastic? why?
Prepainted will sell more.
I’m sure the cost of administering an additional line of unpainted skus would price out to exactly the same as the prepaints. And if the price were the same sales of prepainted would be 95+%.
It’s the same as Cry Havoc…online distribution may lose money, but lost opportunity cost on the print edition was greater, and justified the switch.
It would be great if they could offer unpainted through special order. Hopefully the Rackham phoenix will rise from the ashes within a year and it’ll be possible through Fire Industries or the online store only.
Resin masters either for test castings or for the painters to do paint masters perhaps?
As someone who was attracted to their minis back in ‘03 and has been a fan ever since, I have to say I’m really disappointed. I was waitin’, hopin’ that their promise of plastics that would be as good as their metals, that would quiet all the naysayers, would turn out to be true. I was disappointed in the AT-43 quality, but hoped they could get it fixed for Rag. But based on these pictures, it looks like not.
To those of you who think this lowerin’ of the quality of the minis and simplifin’ of the rules is a good thing, it looks like your dreams have come true. As for me these pix are the nail in the coffin, I’m movin’ on.
Not mad, just sad.
I was waitin’, hopin’ that their promise of plastics that would be as good as their metals …
Plastics never are as good as metal or resin minis. What would have lead you to think that they would be?
To those of you who think this lowerin’ of the quality of the minis and simplifin’ of the rules is a good thing
No-one ever said that. Be annoyed at the quality of the sculpts if you want but you don’t need to make up “strawman” arguments to make a point.
Its not a skirmish game any more. The level of individual detail that was in Conf v3 would have made the new game unplayable.
AT-43 uses the same system and it is a very playable game and provides all sorts of strategy and army building options. I don’t supposed that the new Conf won’t have a similar style of gameplay.
It won’t be Conf v3 to be sure.
Plastics never are as good as metal or resin minis. What would have lead you to think that they would be?
Rackham’s claims, perhaps :)
To those of you who think this lowerin’ of the quality of the minis [...] is a good thing…
I certainly do not think it is a good thing, but I’ll still be reasonably impressed if the final plastic product is as decent as those previews. Granted they’re not as highly detailed as what they achieved in metal (I don’t think that many people had bought into their claim that it would be otherwise), but how many players could do anything of those details anyway?
but how many players could do anything of those details anyway?
Excellent point. Almost all of my Confrontation models have remained unpainted precisely for this reason
And its the precise reason why I never even bother to play Rag’narok.
And yet I have almost 100 painted Weird War minis and close to that many painted BattleMechs.
Looks good so far. I can feel my willpower not to buy a Griffin force weakening. Mmm, prepaints + new baby = I might get to play!!
Other than the baby thing, I already have to keep trucking on my Menites and have to get somewhere on my Trollbloods. If CaoR wasn’t prepaint, like AT-43, I’d have to pass on it (or at least give some attention first to my totally unpainted Vile-tis army).
For those that keep slaggin’ the AT-43/CaoR ruleset, you really should try out a game or 10 of AT-43. Its a very good system IMHO, and is a notch above the industry standard for sure. Lots of fun mechanics like alternating activations/leadership as a resource (not just another beatstick)/activation order planning etc. I recommend trying AT-43 instead of CaoR, just because its got a lot of unit choices out right now. Given how good it is, I just don’t see CaoR belly flopping. While it may not be the system everyone is looking for, it may allow Rackham to breakthrough to the main stream, which is something that Con3 was never able to achieve.
-Tim
I went through the same arguments when AT-43 came out. It turns out to be a great success. I am sure that there are people who insist in painting metal minis with lots of details but they are such a tiny mini minority. If I own Rackham, I don’t mind losing them at all. Confrontation looks well and exciting to me and I am quite certain that it will pick up. Let’s face it. The day of painting mini is over. It may be fun and this hobby is going down the drain.
They seem to have more of a comic book style than previous incarnations (unless that’s just my tired eyes). These are better than I was expecting, but final judgement is reserved until I get a production piece in my hand.
That might be a Vestal or Lady Claudia Nessalit, not really Isis.
Characters look good. The problem is that in the transition from metal to rubber (yes, I do like plastic and it is cool to paint, pre-paints are rubber and not so much fun to re-paint) edges loses sharpness and then the overall nice mini gets covered in a bad paintjob :(
I do though respect the fact that for most of the gamers it’s ok.
I just hope that Rackham actually price the minis in the UK at a decent level rather than just saying $30 = £30. For those in the states, £30 is roughly $60! That’s too much for one pack of six figures. Rackham are hardly known for financially sound decisions though are they?
If I’m to be accused of makin’ up “strawman” arguments, you might not want to reinforce what I said in your rebuttal.
“The level of individual detail that was in Conf v3 would have made the new game unplayable.”
“but how many players could do anything of those details anyway?
Excellent point. Almost all of my Confrontation models have remained unpainted precisely for this reason”
Rackham did tell us, on their forums, when they first announced the move to plastics that the quality would be as good. While I didn’t believe it I took a wait and see attitude about it. Well as they say the proof is in the puddin’.
I’m not mad about R’s dumbin’ down of the rules and and scrapin’ of detail & quality with their minis. I’m just really bummed. I mean here was a company that brought to the industry a new level of quality to the hobby of miniatures and put out a set of rules that was second to none in detail and playability. I had never had as much fun and satisfaction as I did playin’ Confrontation V2 & V3. I realize not every one feels that way, but for my friends and I that was how it was. It was unlike any other game we had played. And now it’s gone. Yeah, we can still play those old rules, but when the company that makes them says they aren’t any good it’s kinda hard to stay excited. Only one person I know is lookin’ forward to the new rules and even he is not so excited about the minis.
Will I play? No. Havin’ read the rule pdf it’s just more of the same, stand the figures in a line, throw a fist full of dice, and remove a bunch of shiny plastic pieces from the table. Not my cup of tea anymore.
But R is a business, and businesses go where there’s money to be made, and there is more money to be made when you need a hard back rulebook, an army book, & 40 minis to play then when you only need 8 minis and a free rulebook.
I’ve moved on to more challengin’ games, with better quality minis.
Like I said it’s a bummer, but that’s reality.
For plastic miniatures, they are nice, but they still pale in comparison to the old metals. As far as concept goes, the new Melkion is way better than the old. I’d buy these minis if they were metal. We’ll wait and see how the prepaints go.
1st off you are looking at a image on the internet of course the detail is not going to show. If you can discern the detail level from a grainy “web” friendly then good for you. Personally the plastic models they showed at gencon this year where some of the best I have seen and of course the detail is not going to be what the metal is but its there. If anything these models have a lot cleaner details than some the old models.
As for the game if you are not interested thats fine great. But I will say this compared to the older games the new game is a lot easier for a new player to start out playing as opposed to the old which makes for more players coming in which intern makes for more money. Rackham never said that the C3.X was bad but I can tell you this even before the release C3.5 there was basically no growth, no new players coming in because it was hard to get started unless you knew someone who had been playing a while. New game equals potential for new growth even with the loss of some veteran players.
From the images show these models look great by the way.
They seem to have more of a comic book style than previous incarnations
That just might be a result of the move to plastics. Less detail than metal and certainly less detail than the old Conf. metals.
I’m just really bummed. I mean here was a company that brought to the industry a new level of quality to the hobby of miniatures and put out a set of rules that was second to none in detail and playability.
But almost no-one played the game.
So what is Rackham going to do?
I mean here was a company that brought to the industry a new level of quality to the hobby of miniatures and put out a set of rules that was second to none in detail and playability.
You are seriously the first person I have ever heard praise the “rules” in this way. Most think that they were overly complex for what they were, because basically it came down to the “to wound” roll. If you got lucky a few times, it was over for your opponent.
C2/C3 was played a fair amount at our LGS, but we had trouble attracting people to the game because they would often just say “It doesn’t look very strategic because all your games just end up evolving into a big fray in the middle of the table.” To a certain extent that was true. When Warmachine came out, Confrontation died. The biggest reason being that the rules were vastly superior in most peoples minds.
So while you may have loved the rules, I think you have to see that you were in the minority. Rackham had to change its business model and given that they had arguably the best figs, logic suggests their problem was with their rules.
When Warmachine came out, Confrontation died.
It was in trouble when Warmachine came out. It died when Hordes was released.
We were all pumped to play the Dogs of War expansion and then Hordes appeared and I don’t recall anyone ever mentioning it again.
I don’t believe anyone who says the plastics they saw at Gencon were great. Only 2 plastics were shown at Gencon, 2 poorly colored Wolfen. They were in a case with a ton of painted and grey-base coated (and I’m sure intentionally plastic looking) resin models.
They only clarified which were plastic if you specifically asked.
I don’t believe anyone who says the plastics they saw at Gencon were great.
Its an opinion. You don’t “believe” them you agree or disagree. I am assuming that you disagree?
Only 2 plastics were shown at Gencon, 2 poorly colored Wolfen.
Well three if you count Abel. And there were also resin masters of the cavalry and one other Griffin character
and I’m sure intentionally plastic looking
Or intentionally resin looking since they were made from resin. No need to start some conspiracy theory about people showing resin masters.
I was hoping to see more details in the plastics. I’m in the hobby for painting beautiful miniatures and then to sometimes play a game. Things are looking bad for my preferences in this hobby.
but how many players could do anything of those details anyway?
I’m one of those that buys models solely for this reason, so I’m quite disappointed. My only saving grace is the good sales on the metal miniatures that are happening.
Well if you like painting minis then this will be a disappointment for you for sure.
I like playing games more than I like painting so I’m more inclined to like this change that your average mini fan will.
Like Tim, I wouldn’t be in a position to play Confrontation if I had to paint and assemble an army I wouldn’t be able to play a mass combat game like Confrontation or AT-43.
All of the new games I am getting involved in are all skirmish games with either simpler figures or a small number of minis.
As I said in my first post…
To those of you who think this lowerin’ of the quality of the minis and simplifin’ of the rules is a good thing, it looks like your dreams have come true.
More power to ya.
Only decreasing the level of details and lowering the quality are two very different things. Matter of fact, the quality of quite a few metal Rackham miniatures was suffering a lot from the sometimes overwhelming details. Molds wearing and tearing would translate into poor casting of the finest details, and quality control would very often let some of those defective minis slip through for a while before renewing the molds.
I for one am also among the painters rather than players. I’ve enjoyed working on Rackham minis, but they’ve also given me headaches at time. I can definitely understand how most gamers will be relieved by more friendlily designed miniatures.
I enjoy a high level of detail in my rules and figures. I want the highest quality in my figures and I’m not concerned about how much money a company makes that I am not a part of. Obviously I am in the minority, but Rackham served that minority very well. I think that is why myself and others ask “why” or become sad at this news.
It is indeed sad when a company takes a product you loved and moved on. I have to disagree with your comment about not being concerned with how much money the company makes though. If it doesn’t sell enough product a company like Rackham will go under and then no-one wins.
1voice2many said:
SNIP
Here ya go, fixed your post for you.
To those of you who think that actually findin’ people to play against and playin’ fully painted armies is a good thing, it looks like your dreams have come true.
Here ya go, fixed your post for you.
None of that sort of thing please.
Wow.
There are obviously two camps here. I am in the smaller camp of being sad by the move. But you are right Zac, if the company goes under, no one wins.
I hope their resin department can carry on where they left off and bring me the kind of miniatures I did buy from them. No, I never played a game of Confrontation…but I bought their miniatures because I love nice minis. So they lost the sale of one book to me because I dont play. Now they lost my money entirely. But as I said, I know I’m with the minority and overall their sales should increase. I am happy for Rackham and wish them the best. I just hope that smaller companies like Hasselfree will continue to make high quality metal minis at a reasonable price so we painters dont become a dying breed.
The other sad thing is that these models are actually quite nice for plastics. If GW put these out I would praise them for raising their quality. They are just a step down for Rackham in my opinion.
Sorry guys, my post was uncalled for. I’d delete it if I could.
I just don’t think anyone is benefitting by the Rackham trashing anymore. The people that are doing are hurting themselves….if they want to see those high quality metal or resin minis back on the shelves then they should be making posts like:
I hope Rackham is successful with these prepainted plastics so that can bring my favourite metal minis back!
Sorry guys, my post was uncalled for.
Thanks
I just don’t think anyone is benefitting by the Rackham trashing anymore.
Probably a good point
Lets try to keep the commentary about the minis and the game a bit more focused and constructive please.
A comment from one of the game designers answering a guy asking whether the minis were a little thicker to save on sculpting:
“The production parameters are not the same. Our first few tries at plastic miniatures were as fine as usual, but the joints would snap with the slightest strain”
They do admit they were wrong in claiming they’d achieve the same level of details as with metal. Apparently there were difficulties ahead they hadn’t foreseen.
I have to say apart from the last one…I think these models are very nice. Certainly not the level of detail that can be found on Rackham metals, but for plastic, I think they are a great achievement, and if the process stopped there fantastic….However….
…they will now be cast in pre colour plastics and then have a small amount of ink added to them, and finally have large dots of paint added for eyes, and big layers of paint liberally and sporadically painted on some large areas….
This last part of the process is what >I< do not like.
If I could get these models as we now see them, and then paint them ourselves, I for one would not have any problem buying them, my objection is to paying more than other plastic figures (Some call it a premium) for the last process I mentioned above, to then have to paint them again to my standard, whatever that maybe.
PPP seems to be here to stay…I won’t be buying any!
People here in the UK had not stopped playing, this year alone we had about 20 official tornies.
Most of the guys I knew were on the 4th or 5th army! Why? because they liked the game, the models, and the rules, and the community that built up round it.
Over here people didnt stop playing because other games came out.
If we had wanted to play bigger games, we would have, most of us could field huge armies from at least one race. why didnt we? Because we loved the skirmish game.
What killed the C3 game was the big R
Cheers for your ears!
That’s probably another UK/North America split then. I think Conf was really struggling to gain a foothold here in North America vs other games. Warmachine did quite well here, whereas they’re still trying to make inroads into Europe.
North America revenue seems to be the make-or-break for game companies now; if a small game company can gain a foothold here then they can continue to grow past their initial cycle of releases.
I think it may also be that the game was available in Europe much sooner than it was in North America.
Aye lads I think you are right there, we did have it before you folks.
But the problem these companies then have, is they concentraight so much at getting into the good old US of A, that it is at the detriment to their existing fans, in the parts of the world that helped them to get there in the first place.
And if they dont make it in the USA, and their existing fans have got a bit annoyed and walked away…where does it leave the company…
…high and dry