i actually dreamed this nightmare…….ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Sure some stores work well, and others don’t, but it is always pretty marginal.

However, in the age of the internet do they reallly need their expensive infrastucture any more? Wouldn’t a network of High Street toy stores and indiependent retailers not serve them better? Sure the “in yer face-ness” of GW would decrease, but I suspect that in the long run that wouldn’t matter. After all Rackham, Privateer Press, Mongoose etc., do just fine without their own store network. It’s G’s desire to own the whole business from soup to nuts that is their Achilles heel.

2007/08 financial year will I suspect make or break them. 2007 financial results will make ghastly reading, and with them suspending the dividend, their is no clearer indication to shareholders that they are going through very lean times indeed. The £7m of job cuts will buy them a year of time, but if turnover doesn’t start to increase in real terms (in real terms, LotR bubble aside in the period 2002-04, GW turnover has actually decline since 2000), then there really is no long term solution other than retraction to a much smaller operation.

All the signs are that the whole wargames industry has reached something of a peak, and that new customers are largely going to the new companies, and staying away from GW, which is looking old fashioned.

I think GW can still turn things around - its just going to depend on how they handle stuff. I personally love the fluff, which I think still manages to come across in the game better then what I’ve played in Warmachine (a game where I love the fluff and hate the rules, especially the armies)

It’ll be an interesting next couple years for GW - though I think they’d be alot better off with a gamer instead of thier current Managing Director…

I have gone on here and other places about what I think GW should or should not do, but I won’t do that here. I think what I will do is respond to the notion that GW is a gateway drug and how I feel about them now, ending with what I would like to see. I may be a unique instance in the hobby, but I doubt it. And maybe somebody can extrapolate from it better than I can.

Gateway - my gateway, about 17 years ago, came indirectly from GW. My friend bought a copy of BattleMasters from Walmart. In case you arent familiar with that game, it was a large hex-based plastic map with stands of Warhammer plastic minis to fight a few war scenarios. It was like Warhammer-lite. Inside came a mail-order form and a brochure for GW games. We took one look at that and said - this is what we want to play! And we started ordering by mail, then asking if things could be ordered by our local hobby shop. We continued to purchase this way until about 6 years later when the hobby shop carried GW products about the time of 2nd ed. 40k. We got and lost our dedicated GW store over the course of two years recently, though I always prefered to buy from my local shop when possible, and only bought 3 boxes of minis and two blisters from the GW store.

So it wasnt a GW store or even 40k that acted as my Gateway. It was that box of GW-related minis on the shelf at Walmart. This seems to apply to some of the things that have been said before me about possible venues for GW that have long been overlooked.

How I play now: I dont buy GW anymore. I dont like the companies treatment of its players. I dont like their rules. And I dont like their minis when compared to the wide variety of options out there. The only thing that brings out my old GW minis is nostalgia and a like of the fluff. In fact, the fluff is really the only thing they have going for them anymore.

I buy minis from all manufacturers now and play with my friends with our own ruleset. It is a great freedom, and we all have exactly the army of our dreams with amazing miniatures and the rules we like the best - our own.

What I would like to see for GW: I like the idea of a gaming universe filled with Space Marines, Warjacks, Hydrassians, and cyborg Gorillas. I would like to see GW hang around, only because of the library of fluff. The “feel” of GW should sit right along side the “feel” of Warmachine and all of the other, smaller and often more creative games. So I dont want GW to go away. It would just waste everybody’s time as another company had to fill the void with genetic super galactic marines and mutants from the warp. Basically, its already there, let it be.

If GW can get their act together and keep up with the evolving market by making good rules, good minis, and above all, treating its customers right, then all the better. If it cant then I am sure one or many companies will fill its place and it can sit in the corner as that “game with all the skulls”. As long as I can buy my miniatures from a local shop or online from any company that tickles my fancy, including GW, I am happy.

So the big picture. Will GW globally close? No, not a chance. Will they be weak as they restructure,and then have to compete for their market share again?
Yes. And as Martha would say… “this is a good thing”!

GW surely strengh it the hobby. it make it a viable profiting exercise and they absolutely were the first ones on ripping the benefit on the mass marketing. one store in every town …. mind you, how many independent stores are been close arround once GW move into town? or are been force to diversify to avoid collapsing …

My circle plays both GW and Privateer Press. And I collect (read: purchase) miniatures from other ranges because they’re neat. And play games from a handful of other systems when the occasional opportunity arises.

The thing about this hobby is once you’ve bought an army, updates aside, your basically done. After that point, you’re spending money because you want to, not because there’s any need.

To get back to the question: Would the hobby survive without GW? Absolutely. GW’s disappearance would surely create a void but this void would be quickly filled with other gaming companies. But I don’t see them falling so fast, they are just stumbling.

but while the warhammer name is wellknown, the game and details arent, it doesnt attract that much people and honestly, you still dont see it in toystores (while you DO see the clix games.)
they could take the warhammer license further by turning it into a basic system (comparable to d20 for rpging.) and put licensed products/games/armies on that system.

epic movies are very popular nowadays and a company that milks licenses in a videogame way would have a strong basis to work on, not in a way to support it with a dozen of releases, but just several and call it *done* onto the next license. its like releasing action figures with rules, only every license that existed can be played with every one that will come.
surely the clix game are comparable, but these are still close to CCGs, Im talking about taking the step further.

Lord of the rings was a perfect license, do the miniatures to go with the movies and then move on, because in the end the *broad* audience wouldnt care for all the extras that much.
other ideal licenses that have come and gone (and would sufficiently supply several armies/sides each.)
Pirates of the Carribean
300
Troy
Terminator
Alien vs Predator (tough that one was done by clix actually.)
eragon (not sure, havent seen it.)
War of the worlds
starship troopers (mongoose.)
Alexander
Kingdom of Heaven
Chronicles of Narnia
and so on.
but also videogames.
this way they have a constant feed of interested parties.

next step would be the legalisation of smaller companies licensing the *warhammer* system, while completely opposite to what they do now and to what they want, its a matter of embracing the fact that people will go looking for other products and other brands (thats western world attitude for you.), by opening up to others, endorsing and supporting them in a way they make sure these curious customers will look around but never alienate from their products.
for example, take alphaforge games’ Hydrissians, people who like it will buy it for sure, they get interested and go for the game the hydrissians can be played in, when they expand they go for other races that do support that game, however if GW would legate the creation of and aid in the publication of rules based on a global system, they earn money trough people’s unavoidable interest in other brands, not much profits in some cases, but in the end, people might as well buy their newest products as well because its compatible with their newfound interest. ofcourse many companies are more about developing their own rules, but wouldnt mind additional revenue and survivability if they could also support a *big system*
in short, dont try to be a dictator.. but try to be a president.
this way of working has proven to work in the videogames industry at least.

one last note, in all the talk about small companies etc.
what I think almost all of them lack is a commercial mind/marketing power, it sounds evil, but wether you do it because you love to do it or hope to get some earnings to make a living you still need it.
both gaming stores and new/small/independent companies alike, most of them have ugly websites, logos, etc. in addition a lot of them startup in doing what was done many times before and forget a small important thing ->support… while I think pure originality is not a requirement, there still needs to be some original approach to it. (there are so many dwarves, that I wonder why no one ever did tribal dwarves for example.) in addition and more importantly, with a single character or a single trooptype you are not getting very far. best way for a startup company is focus on a range.
10 dwarves in your own new style have more chance of selling and making sure you can survive/get the free marketing than 2 dwarves, 2 orcs, 1 elf, 2 humands, 3 goblins and 1 completely original thing.

my 2 eurocent :) (and I hope its even readable ;))

I regularly play Warmachine with younger players. Sure, they’ve heard of 40k but they’ve never bought them. What’s a squig? The gateway I see leading new gamers to “more mature” games are things like Clix and D&D miniatures.

Companies like Hasbro and Topps are already filling the role that Games Workshop serves in the tabletop gaming community. There are several indy FLGS in this area (Chicago) that don’t even stock Games Workshop any longer.

The torch has been passed. No songs will be written about you Games Workshop. Though you have slain the dragon, like Beowulf you must accept the virility of a new generation. Sleep well, sweet prince, your marines have been supplanted by three different rarities of The Silver Surfer.

GW has lost its flavor, I see the company with apathy now, so I really don’t care what will happen to GW, if it falls the gap will be filled, that is the way of life, everyone who says that GW is so big that the gap will be too huge to fill are wrong, there is no written rule saying that a single big company falling must be filled with another big company, the gap can easily be filled with lots of smaller companies.

as it is now GW can not fall, the managers must be intending to make GW fall for it to fall, some quick but smart moves regarding prices, rules design and presentation, but more importantly public image and advertising can get the company back standing (even thought GW is notorious for doing exactly the opposite of what they should). what I do want and trust me that is the best option regarding the hobby is GW to cease been the sole big company (mind you I don’t want them to cease exist I don’t want them to be alone as the sole big company), I wish for another company (any one) to become as big as GW, or better even more companies, so that there can be proper competition, that will make the wargames industry move forward in all respects and that will be good.

just my ideas.

They have also catered for a lot of older gamers withtheir Specialist Games products. These allow for young and new gamers to develop into different styles of games whilst keeping within the GW hobby worlds. To suggest that these should be ended would turn a lot of players away from GW altogether.

It would be a great loss if GW did close down. The service they offer is invaluable and has kept miniatures gaming popular in the face of hi-tech opposition, which is getting bigger and better every year. I think that they will move with the times and get into the pre-painted market.